I recently picked up a Remington model 14 in 25 Rem. I have reformed some 30Rem brass (new unfired)it came up under the maximun allowed length. The only 25 RN bullet I could find is a 117gr Hornady.

I cannot get this rifle to feed the cartridge from the mag tube up into the chamber. The rim either catches on the bottom edge of the bolt face or the bullet doesn't want to lift up out of the mag, causing the cartridge to stand up on end. I have been trying alot of different COL's to see if that is the problem but haven't found anything that feeds reliably.

Am I using the wrong bullet?

Your help is greatly appreciated. Hopefully this rifle will be ready to go next fall for a whitetail.......or two!

Noel

do not see where cartrage length would create all that problem unless they are longer thanthe magazine.
check the feed ramp for burrs or sharp edge.
Is it a staggred box magazine or a stack feed?

Also are the lips on the magazine bent or been pried on? week spring?
Is it a push feed or a control feed.
Dave

Hi Dave,
The model 14 Remington actually has a tube magazine similar to the Win 94 except the loading port is on the bottom of the tube magazine, ahead of the reciever. It loads quite similar to the pump action shotguns.

From info I found around the net (not much) the COL is critical as is the actual bullet nose profile itself. For instance a spitzer will not feed through the mag as it will be too long (not to mention unsafe in the tube mag).
2.520-2.540" is all I have found so far. The bullets have been seated from 2.550 down to 2.510 in .010" increments and no luck feeding it yet. A bit frustrating!

My old Winchester catolog from 1932 listed using the 117gr RN in their loads but I wonder if the nose was more blunt on their projectile like a typical 30-30 would be.

I have a 25/20win. and it probably is simular in a lot of ways. cartrage length is critical as well as blunt nose bullets.I have never tried round nose.
Check the case dimentions andsee if they are close to the 25 case. being formed from another
caliber the case rim or tapper may not be quiet right.
Dave

The 25 Rem is a rimless copy of the old 25-35 Win. The copy of Ken Waters Pet Loads shows the 117 Remington RN loaded to 2.52" COL in his data. He also loaded the 117 Sierra FP @ 2.58" and the 100 gr Sierra Spitzer to 2.56" COL.

The Hornady 3rd Edition has the 25-35 but not the 25 Rem listed. They loaded the 117 gr Hornady RN to 2.60" COL and their 60 gr SP to 2.305" COL
The Waters book has 2.525" as the cartridges max OAL although the data excedes this in a couple loads.
One thing you may want to keep in mind, The Wolfe Press`s "Handloader" magazine had a artical a while back on loading for tube mag rifles. They found RN bullets to be as bad as pointed ones in their tests. The curve of the RN acts as a "point" on the primer ahead of it and in their gun caused the cartridge to go off. The amount of cartridges in the mag affected the result and the more in the tube the more impact on the rimer. You can of course use them as you would a SP and load singlely if you desire. Damage was confinded to the mag tube in the artical, but I wouldn`t want my hand near it.

I looked for Joe's article, but haven't found the issue. I did come across a general article on 25's by John Barsness in which he identified the 117 gr. roundnose as the standard load for 25's. I don't see Sierra listing any FN's in .25 currently.

Hornady has a 60 gr. FN. and Speer has a 75 gr. w/ cannelure. You might try the Speer to see if it functions.

There is a possiblity that the lifter has a problem.

It would be interesting to know which bullet did function in Joe's Handloader article. If I find out, I'll post again.

Win 69, The artical was not on 25 cal rifles just tubular mags. I believe it was by Scoval (sp?) and ran in the spring. I might be mistaken and the magazine could be Rifle instead of Handloader but I am sure it was one of the two.

Both Rifle and handloader are excellent magazines for gathering data. They are hard to find up here is the only downside! Subscription time I guess......
I might start shooting cast just so I can get the blunt nose needed for safety and perhaps it will help my feeding issues as well.
For hunting I wanted to find a jacketed bullet that would offer a bit more expansion on game.

I shot a deer with the 41 Swiss and a cast slug this fall and it worked great but I was also starting out with a .431" 310gr pill. A 25 cal might react quite different. I will post any info I find here in case anyone is on the same search as I am.

FWIW, the big selling feature of the Model 14 was the spiral tube, designed to make the tip of the bullets rest at an angle away from the primer. Even still tho, in 1912 a pointed bullet in that day was never the same as it is now, more like WW bulk power point.

If i can get this gun to shoot I would try the Nosler 55gr ballistice tip for coyotes, but as mentioned it would be only one cartridge in the chamber, and only one in the mag.

Thanks for the input gents!

quote:

For instance a spitzer will not feed through the mag as it will be too long (not to mention unsafe in the tube mag).

Au contraire! The Model 14 (and 141) had a magazine tube with spiral offsets to place the nose of each cartridge against the outer portion of the base of the following cartridge (rather than bearing against the primer), thus allowing pointed bullets.

Noel, I have a M14 in .25 REM and shoot 90 gr. Sierra HP's very successfully. I can't say if your feeding trouble is related to the LOA or something else, but loading with more pointed bullets can't hurt. Years ago, I chose the 90 gr HP simply because its nose isn't subject to damage in the tubular magazine as would be a lead tipped soft point. If I were doing it today, I might try a Nosler 100gr Ballistic Tip, which should hold up nicely in the tube.

I, also, use resized .30 Rem brass, which works fine. My 90 grain bullets are loaded to 2900 fps, which makes the old gun a lot flatter shooter than with the factory loaded 117 RNs at about 2300 fps. You should be able to safely do 2700 fps or so with a 100 gr Nosler BTip, which should make an excellent deer load.

Congratulations on owning a classic rifle, and best of luck with it.

Thanks for the great info Stone Creek! The whole reason behind getting this rifle stems from this picture.

My great Uncle in 1945. Until this year I did not know what caliber it was, then I found two 25 cases in the field where the homestead was.
There was also a 32 loaded cartridge in the field too!

I tore the gun apart last night. The tips of the bullets were file flat to the copper to see if the tip was causing the trouble and it fed a bit better. I pulled the plunger and polished the end of it so the bullets would slip off a bit easier and spit and polished the action. I thought it was starting to actually feed and then another hickup.
The cartridge doesn't always come back far enough or go under the lips that guide the case up to the bolt face and extractors.
The three sample cases I have been using are so scarred up from being jammed etc it may be time to start with some fresh ones. I hope it shoots even halfways well with that sewer pipe barrel because alot of time is being wasted here! LOL

I hope I can find one of these rifles with some condition. This one is tight action wise but beat up and very weathered.

Damn, now I'm going to have to tell "my" Model 14's story.

It first belonged to my wife' maternal grandfather, who owned a sporting goods store for many, many years. He and other family members used it for years, then he gave it to my wife's father (his son-in-law). Father-in-law was primarily a bird hunter, so this was his only hunting rifle for most of his life (until I prevailed on him to buy a BAR .270 many years later). He eventually gave me the Model 14 -- for which no one could find ammunition. For me, a long time reloader, it was no problem: Just order 100 .30 Rem cases from Midway and a set of dies with a shellholder and I'm in business. I reformed and loaded the 100 cases by working up to the proper amount of IMR3031. The old gun is equipped with a Lyman Alaskan 2.5X scope and shoots about as well as you can see at a hundred yards (well, less than 2" anyway). When my wife's father died, I gave the gun to my son, figuring he was next in succession and a "blood" descendant of the original owner.

I don't have any available to post, but I have a number of photos from the '30s of my wife's father and grandfather with this gun (and others) and various deer and turkeys. Some of them are even with deer hanging from the awning outside of his storefront on Austin's Congress Avenue, just a few blocks from the Capitol building. Wouldn't you like to see that same scene today!

Stonecreek you are a very fortunate fellow to get one. I am sad to say the wrong person inherited Leif's guns when he passed on in the sixties. They were sold off and he cannot remember who he sold them too. Selling heirloom items is serious taboo in my books but the man is quite daft.

If you ever get a chance to scan your pictures please do post them for us to enjoy. Thanks for sharing the background on your 14. It makes for a great read. I have quite a few but it might be better to just start a classic pictures thread instead as this is the only oine with the 14 Remington.

If you ever see another one that you don't want for yourself in the 25 cal please keep me in mind. For the right price I would mind going through the headache of importing one up here.
If this one will do 2" group at 100yds I will be very happy but looking at the bore I will be suprised if it is under 12"!

I will keep you posted on the progress, or lack there of. LOL

Noel

Just as an update in case anyone cares, the rifle was missing the cartridge stop. I had no experience withthe se guns before so I had no idea until I found an exploded view of the gun and talked with a couple collectors.

I have since found another 25 M14 in very good condition, 1913 MFG which has a minty bore and about 80% finish externally.

This one feeds like greased lightening with any of the COL's I've tested. ALso the factory loaded box of Remington cartridges that came withth is gun are also 117gr RN. For interest sake I tried loading a 85gr Nosler BT and it will not feed into the magazine, the window on the early 14's is smaller than the 141's.

It does however fit nicely in the 25-35Rem stamped Model 8 I just picked up. If I find a cheap stash of brass I might use it for a coyote load. The 8's are known to really toss the brass so it may only see the range.

I loaded 29.5gr of H380 under the 117gr Hornady and the first groups shot with both the 14's were 1/2 and 1", off hand resting on one knee at 30yds so I hope to try the load off a bench.

The model 8 has not been shot yet.

Cheers,
Noel

My 25 Rem sample (headstamp W.R.A.Co 25 Rem) has a OAL of 2.514" (63.9mm)
Hope that helps

Thanks Tailgunner!
I have been doing well with 2.540" with the 117gr.
Do you know what wieght yours are?

Noel

No, I don't know wha weight it is. It's also the only sample I have, so I really don't want to take it apart.

Congratulations!! I think you are pursuing an honourable quest, with one of the greatest but least appreciated field rifles of the early 20th century. I have had several Rem 14s/141s, and still have its little brother, a M25(.32-20).

My first one was a M14 in .32 Remington. It was a slick gun with a nice folding tang sight, which came with a case and a half of factory ammo. Shartly after getting it, I bought a half section farm smack in the middle of 640,000 acres of BLM forest. I had a wife and a baby boy at the time, and with that rifle and some others I had picked up along life's way, we lived, added a daughter, AND went to university on about $80 per month cash money. Surprising how much food one of those rifles can provide if you are on good terms with the neighbors and the game warden.

Everyone with money that I knew seemed to prefer the .35 Remington chambering, so eventually I got one of those too (a M141), but honestly I didn't find it any better all-around than the .32 was for my use.

What I really kick myself for is turning down a M14 in .25 Remington here in a local gun shop about 5 years go...owner wanted $205 for it, but as it had no remaining blue, I turned it down. Foolish man, me, on that day!! It didn't need blue to work well, and reblue jobs don't cost TOO much, if I had to have one.

I'll be looking forward to your post on how you put that .25 slug into a moose's ear this coming fall.....

Tailgunner by all means keep that one intact. I just thought you might have known the weight.

Alberta Canuck, you have a nice stash there! I would like to one day get a 32 Model 14 with the Cresent butt plate. I found a dud 32 Rem case up in the homestead. It lat there long enough that most of the exposed lead had corroded away! There was also a 32-20 case in the barn but I have no idea what kind of rifle they used that in. Guess I can take my pick on that one! LOL

I think I also just located a Savage 40 in 250 just like Leif used for his moose in my avatar in 1933.

My moose tag is a ways off yet. However, Antelope is coming up and so is my Muley Buck draw.