I have been having so much dam trouble with seating my bullets. (BRAND NEW TO RELOADING). I thought I was seating them too far down so i adjusted my seater to the depth of my factory bullets and my next bullet was FINALLY SNUG and didnt move when i pushed on it.... But after that they were still lose when i pushed on them... WHAT AM I DOING WRONG!!! I cant stand all the bullets i put time into being too loose to use. Please, any comments welcome.

I'd say to start, you need to tell us all exactly what you are doing during your loading process. From start to finish.

It would also be helpful if you would post a picture of some of your finished loads.

definately need more info. WHat caliber are you reloading? what dies do you use? If its a strait wall cartridge you could be flaring too much and/or not be crimping enough

What caliber? How many firings on the case? Have you annealed the cases?

Sorry, I am reloading once fired .257 roberts with all lee products. I got the anniversary kit for christmas. I think I will go take photos and let you guys see exactly what i do.

Max, I will assume that you have read the instructions, and that you have 'neck" sized the cases properly. If this is so, then the die not you is at fault. One basic test is to take a fired case and using a micrometer measure the outide neck diameter. Then size the case and measure the outside neck diameter, then load a bullet and once again measure the outside neck diameter. Then loaded round should be about .002 to .003 larger than the sized only case. Proper neck tension is what appears to be lacking. If the die is not to fault, then the case isn't getting deep enough into the sizing portion of the die. This ain't rocketry...

Yes,,, I have read the instructions front to back 3 times.. VERY BAD INSTRUCTIONS. I have had others read them to me, follow them to a tee and still not a quality outcome. I dont even have instructions on how to crimp a bullet.

1. My case:



2. I lube and use the needle die to jam out the primer..

3. I lube and re prime





4. I load my 117 bullet and case with 43 grains of ... i think 8341 powder.


5. I put my seating die to where it touches my factory bullet... I then push it up there.



6.End result:



The bullet after I give it a push with my finger....



My crimp die that I have yet to use. Never says how to in the instructions, just says I can if i want more accurate loads.

I guess the camera also came with bad instructions! Just teasing you about the focus.

Is that just a decaping die ? Are you sizeing the necks?

I ran out to my garage and dit it in vary low light.

its just a decapping neck i think..

STOP! Before you do anything else, get a loading manual and read it. You obviously don't know what you're doing, you could hurt yourself or bystanders. I would suggest the book Modern Reloading second edition by Richard Lee. Since you have Lee products, they use the press you've got in the front of that book to get you started in reloading. There's a section for the 257 roberts as to which powders and how much to use.

You need to either get the book, or find somebody who has been doing reloading for a while to help you through a box of shells. After that, you should be able to progress on your own, with help from us here or other places on the web.

i read it, thats how i got the correct powder/primer/bullet combo. All that is wrong is my bullet fitting.

Do you know what case resizeing is? Full length resizeing? Neck resizeing?

Are you just useing a deprimeing die and not resizeing your cases with a resizeing die?

The cases have to be run through a resizeing die. It squeezes the necks back to size. The necks expand when the round is fired so you have to resize them . You have to measure the legth of your cases after you resize them too. Do you have calipers to measure your cases?

You need reread the reloading manual again and learn the steps. Sounds like you need a better manual that explains the process and dangers.

What manual do you have?

There are different kinds of dies. Some just deprime. Others deprime and resize the case at the same time. Some just resize the neck. A full length resize die can be adjusted to just resize the neck and partial body with out setting back the shoulder.

Be careful you can blow yourself up . Dont load your first rounds with a max powder charge. You start low and move up after you fire those and check for pressure signs.

Make sure you have the specific dies for the caliber you are reloading. 3006-3006 dies,270-270 dies, 257 roberts- 257 roberts die, etc

Get a hand held primeing tool.

Max,

Welcome to the forum.

First check that you are using a SIZING die to re-size your fired cases.

If you are, and still getting loose bullets, then I suspect that your expander is too big for your cases.

To find out if this is the case, unscrew the decapping pin from the die, and remove the expander plug and decapping pin assemble from the die, and run one case through it.

Put a bullet into this case, and see if it fits tighter.

If this is the case, then you have to grind a bit off the expander plug.

This is very easily done by putting the de-capping assembly into a an electric drill, and running some sand paper of it while it is rolling.

You don't have to take much, but you just have to take a bit off and try it.

Sometimes this happens because the cases you are using have thinner walls than normal.

I wish that I could see your crimp. The crimping die might just need to be adjusted some.

I have seen the same problem when using the Lee neck sizing die (collet) with both a 243 Win and a 7mm-08.
Mine both worked fine for the first couple of hundred rounds. I susspect the collect slots got dirt/lub in them and where not closing fully.

I say suspect because I quit using them, although I did clean them up.

Also I hear that folks put the Lee expander in a drill press of lathe and use emory cloth to take a .001 of so off to make for more neck tension.

I just quit using them and went to RCBS full size dies. I would rather spend my time shooting or hunting than working on reloading equipment.

Bottom Line. Call Lee and talk to them. I suspect you have a bad die or oversized expander.

Good luck and hang in there.

quote:

My crimp die that I have yet to use. Never says how to in the instructions, just says I can if i want more accurate loads.

Ouch !

Your last picture shows a factory crimp die, which, properly applied, will make the bullet stay in its designated position (and egalizes the crimp - the task it was designed for).

I'm a bit worried about the mind behind your first reloading steps: you moan about incomplete information, but instead of healing this by reading or contacting knowledgeable people, you continue as if this is a minor flaw. But you risk your (and worse: your bystanders or shooting buddies) health or even life.

Three advises come to my mind:
1- check bullet diameter
2- have a Google search with "Lee factory crimp"
and, most important:
3- refrain from shooting your hand loads as long as you are not familiar with the basics.

MaxM. I have the exact same Lee Neck sizing dies that you have, and I have them in several calibers (including 257R). You are correct about the lack of instructions about crimping. I don't crimp so it has not been a problem for me, however, you are correct that some of the dies eg. in my case the 308 die set, do not give enough neck tension to securely hold the bullet. I think that it is the diameter of the expander plug, as someone else has mentioned.
Peter.
PS. The crimping is usually done with the seating die. You should seat the bullet to the depth you want, then, back off the seating plug and loosen the locking ring. Then. lower the whole die in the press, and run the Loaded round into the die, repeat the process, alternately lower the die and rerunning the round into the die. AT some point you will feel resistance. This is the crimping ring engaging the case and crimping it. Notice that bacause you have backed off the seating plug, you are not seating the bullet any deeper into the case. Hope that helps. PM me and we can talk on the phone if you want.
Peter.

Guys, I have the lee manuel and I read it. I am not doing anything dangerous. When a bullet comes out and isnt perfect, i set it aside. You are really making me sound like an idiot. I have the lee .257 roberts die kit also... When i put the bullet up in the crimping die i get no pressure on the neck at all. I will be back on later today.

Max,

We certainly don't mean to insult you, but you did ask a technical question or a bunch of technical people, but then did not provide technical details on your tools or processes. While you may be doing everything precisely correctly, you would not be anywhere near the first person who's made mistakes in this very dangerous process of reloading.

Each of has had loose bullets in the past - there are many causes. You just need to explain what you did and what you used so that advice is not just a random guess.

Jaywalker

Try this. Fully resize a brass with the expander in the die. Measure the outside diameter of the neck. Then take the expander out completely, size another brass, and measure the outside of that neck.

Personally, I don't use an expander anyway but you need a good case neck lube if you go that route.

I don't think you look like an idiot. Just new to reloading. Hang in there.

Max M.

I you can push a bullet down in the case by hand after the seating of the bullet you simply do not have enough neck tension after the case is sized.

The crimp or lack off the crimp has nothing to do with it. The crimp is typically used for hard recoiling calibers that tend to jam the bullets into the box magazine of a rifle when a cartridfe is fired in the chamber or for tube feed magazines ( aka 94 Winchester).

There is no need to crimp a 257 Roberts, unless you just want to do it. If the bullet moves by hand you have either a problem with the die/expander or the die/press set up.

I suspect the die/expander.

Most likely the expander is too large.

I'm not sure what Lee die you are using to resize with, but with the Lee Collet die you have to be sure run the case all the way up into the die with the press. The contact of the shoulder of the cartridge with the die makes the collet close on the neck and resizes the neck only.

You say you are lubeing the cases so I take it the sizeing die is a FULL LENGHT or is it a NECKSIZER? It should have either a "FL" or "NK" on it by the cartridge designation. The type is important, espescially if it`s a collet die which it doesn`t appear to be in your photos.
Try resizing a case after you`ve popped out the primer with the deprimeing stem removed. Does the neck tension on the bullet improve?

Is the bullet seating die screwed in too deep? Screw it in with no bullet, just a case, in the shellholder until you feel it touch the case mouth and turn it back out 1/8 turn. Seat a couple bullets with it in this position just useing the stem to adjust the bullet seating depth. I`ve found if you over crimp, and seating dies do crimp in most instances, the case will bulge slightly behind it and you lose all neck tension. You shouldn`t need ANY crimp to hold the bullet!

Don`t give up! No one thinks you are silly or dumb, we`ve all had a problem at some point and it just usuallty turns out the problem/cure was some simple thing everyone should have saw but didn`t. The are no dumb questions!

If all else fails give Peter a call as he suggested. There is nothing like talking it through with someone who knows when it comes to solving problems in place of e-mail or forum communications.

If you'll pm me your address I will send you an older lyman book I have, if it has the instructions. The one I use most often (a couple years newer but still old) has really good instructions.

First thing I noticed in your pics and explanations was that you were lubing again before seating a bullet. You have to take the Lube OFF the case, it is only there for the neck/full length sizing and decapping (which are normally one step). Let me give you, off the top of my head since I haven't loaded in a few months and somebody I am sure will catch if I miss something.

I'll number it out really detailed, but you'll see that most of this should be automatic as you handle the cases and go from one stage to another.

1. inspect fired cases for damage
2. lube cases (I do this one at a time since I have a single stage press and only load 20-40 in one sitting) I also lube the inside of the neck a little bit, I take a pipe cleaner and wrap it around the leg of my loading stand and put a little lube on it, stick the mouth of the case over it and give it a quick turn
3. De-cap (the die with a needle, that's the decapping pin) and resize (for me all my dies do both, no seperate sizing dies) the brass
4. WIPE DOWN the brass.
5. I tumble at this point, this takes care of the bit of lube on the inside of the inside of the neck plus gives me shiny brass
6. Clean primer pockets, good opportunity to check for problem brass as it will be clean and cracks etc. show up better
7. Check length and trim cases if necessary
8. Chamfer the case necks
9. Prime the cases
10. Charge the cases (put the powder in) I seldom use a powder throw, I weigh out each charge, when I use a throw I check every 5 to 10 rounds to verify the charge weight. Also, I charge all the rounds in a batch (I break them down into batches of 20 for charging and bullet seating steps) before seating the bullets, that way if a problem does become apparent, like scale was off, powder throw was off, anything, I can just dump them or re-weigh the charge without having to pull bullets.
11. Seat the bullet

Neck crimping should not be necessary to get a tight fit with the bullet. You have the lube there that might be causing you a problem. Also, if the instructions were bad they might not have told you how to properly adjust you dies in the press? How do you setup the decapping/sizing die for instance? It isn't just a matter of going until the primer pops out. I raise the ram all the way up, turn the die in until it touches the shell holder, back the ram off and turn the die about a quarter to a half turn. Somebody help me here, this causes the handle to "cam over" I guess is what I would call it, when you are done with your stroke. This gets to be a feel thing for you.

The bullet seating die I use a nickle between the shellholder and the bottom of the die. This is just a starting point, you'll have to play with it. The dies, at least RCBS, usually come with a little piece of cardboard about the thickness of a nickle for this purpose (I just use a nickle since some die sets I have were used and don't have the cardboard disc).

Let us know how it goes, and shoot me a PM if you want me to send that book. (alternatively I could try and get some pages scanned out of one and e-mail them to you)

Red

Its pretty obvious from Max's comments and stance that it is impossible for him to be in error. Despite the fact that only about a gazillion rounds of good, accurate ammo has been loaded using the exact rig he has.
Max, have you talked to the folks at Lee? Perhaps one of their tech's could walk you thru it over the phone.
And, in the FWIW department, while burnishing the resizer ball in a die is fairly simple, I don't think you're familar enough with the workings of your equipment to try it at this stage.

quote:

Originally posted by trigger:
Max M.

I you can push a bullet down in the case by hand after the seating of the bullet you simply do not have enough neck tension after the case is sized.

The crimp or lack off the crimp has nothing to do with it. The crimp is typically used for hard recoiling calibers that tend to jam the bullets into the box magazine of a rifle when a cartridfe is fired in the chamber or for tube feed magazines ( aka 94 Winchester).

There is no need to crimp a 257 Roberts, unless you just want to do it. If the bullet moves by hand you have either a problem with the die/expander or the die/press set up.

I suspect the die/expander.

Most likely the expander is too large.

I'm not sure what Lee die you are using to resize with, but with the Lee Collet die you have to be sure run the case all the way up into the die with the press. The contact of the shoulder of the cartridge with the die makes the collet close on the neck and resizes the neck only.

Agree, I suspect the die is out of spec.

Max,

You've got some very good suggestions. One thing that comes to mind is if you have the sizing die down far enough. (if this was brought up before, I applogize that I missed it)

What I'd try is to remove the expander assembly from the sizing die. Not just the pin (needle) but the whole assembly. Then (without a shell in the holder) run the press all the way up. Screw the die all the way in until it makes contact with the shell holder. Run the press down and put in a lightly lubed fired and unsized case. Run the press up until it fully engages the die, then back down.

Now try and seat a bullet. You should not be able too.

If you can then the die is out of dimension.

If you can't, then re-assemble the expander/decapping pin into the sizing die. You need to set it so that the decapping pin just barely pushes the primer out. Put the die in the press as before (full contact with the shell holder in the press. If the die won't make contact with the shell holder then your expander my be inserted too far down.

Run the same case through (lightly lubed) the seating die.

Then try seating the bullet.

If it's still loose then it's the expander. If it all works then there was something amiss with your previous set up, like it wasn't sizing the neck.

-Steve

MaxM: This is ignorant. Unless you live so far back in the sticks sunshine has to be piped into you you should find someone in your area that reloads and ask them. Your local gunshop is the first place I would inquire of.

I have helped people start reloading and also have helped people with problems too in my area.

To go on the internet and ask a question that is much beter asked locally where one can find hands on help is kinda goofy.

Do you have so many enemies that you have no one that would help you if you asked or did you just want to be able to post something?

quote:

The contact of the shoulder of the cartridge with the die makes the collet close on the neck and resizes the neck only.

Not a big deal, but it is the shell holder pushing up on the bottom surface of the collet that forces the fingers together and sizes the neck. (not the shoulder)

Jim

Max, your Lee press has a positive stop built into the linkage. It can't "cam over" as has been suggested. On page 27 of the lee manual, it goes through the steps, using the lee challanger press.

IF you have completed all those steps correctly and are still having a loose fit for your bullets, THEN something is very wrong with the dies, OR you have the wrong size bullets! Now before you get angry with me, you're new to this, so it's easy to make mistakes. Check everything again.

We need details! Give us the exact designation off the die box, and the number off the box of bullets. As well as the exact maker and number off the bottle of powder. I suspect you meant 4831 for the powder #. Lee makes several varieties of dies for loading rifle shells. There's the RGB, which is their cheapo dies, the standard full length 2 die set, their 3 die set with full length die + a factory crimp die or their 4 die deluxe set that includes their collet neck sizer die, FL die, seater die AND factory crimp die.

In your 4th pic of the powder measure I see in the background the top of the round die box, the bottom with 2 dies in it, and a third die in the press. That leads me to believe you have the 3 die set. IF you have the first die, the sizer set correctly, you should NOT be getting loose bullets. If it's set properly and you still are getting loose bullets, then something is very wrong with the FL die. You REALLY need a micrometer or a calipers to find out precisely WHAT is wrong with it. Is there a dragging feeling when pulling the shell out of the FL die on the downstroke of the ram? That's the expander button going through the neck on it's way back out. If that is an excessive drag, then the neck is not lubed on the inside, or the button is too big. Those dies go through an assembly process, it's possible that someone put a 6.5 mm,(.264) expander stem in your 257 die, it happens to the best of 'em..

I appologize for my rash statement last night. I just wanted to caution you to get more help BEFORE you tried to shoot any of those shells.

Well thank you to most of you for tips. I think you all just miss understood me.. Its not like I am even going to fire my first set of bullets. All I wanted to do was get practice in and that is what I am doing.. Im not messing around with the primers or powder so I beileve I am being VERY safe. I will try to get all the lube out of the neck. That was a good tip. As for pushing down farthur,, I dont think I can. I read that earlier and lowered my die a little bit but I still have the same problem. I doubt that it's the die's fault. Probably mine, but I don't need jackasses like Me_Plat to give me any of his thoughts. If you need to come on the internet to make fun of people than you are the one with issues my friend. I will get the specs of my powder and dies later on tonight. Thanks again to all the helpful people.

I use the Lee Factory crimp die for every rifle caliber I load for.

If you are interested, PM me, and I'll tell you what I know about it.

Joe

Hey Max, Have you had a chance to try what was suggested above?( pull the expander ball and size, then check fit?)

Dial calipers are a definate need. Pick up a pair as soon as possible. An OD Mic would work just as well or better provided your familiar with reading one. If you measure a sized neck w/o the expander installed, with the expander installed, measure the dia of the expander, and check a couple bullets just to be sure. Nate

FWIW, I don't think Me-Plat is the jackass.

Please try to find someone locally to work you through the process so that you will better understand your equipment terminology. You are missing some very key information in the instructions.
Get help before you hurt yourself or someone else.
Once you get the process down pat your have it made. It really isn't that difficult.

Max,
I have read over this thread a couple of times quickly and haven't been able to tell whether you are using regular Lee dies or collet dies.

I like and use Lee dies, but find that adjusting their collet dies is art not science. With their regular dies, I have had to take some metal off the expander to get the neck tension I wanted.

Please advise, and hang tough. Kudude

It would probably help everyone understand your situation better if you would list off exactly what you are doing.

Example...

1. Resize
2. Prime
3. Throw charge
4. ....
5. ....
6. ....

Max, Are you using the Lee collet die? If so, I had a similar experience when I first started reloading. The key with the collet die is to push your press handle down firmly, and then push a little more. If you are using a collet die it is kind of tricky because you really don't get any indication that the neck is sized. There is no release of tension at the end of the stroke as with a full length sizing die. After a few rounds you just realize how much pressure is necessary on the handle to ensure that the neck is resized. Good luck.

Max Do you by any chance live in the Puyallup Area? Chuck