Just wondering what opinions there are out there on annealing brass and who anneals and when in the reloading sequence.

Benefits?

Ingehious methods?

I anneal any newly formed wildcat brass. I also anneal ANY brass after the fourth or fifth reload.

In sizing the neck the brass is work hardened, the extent dependant on the amount of sizing. This hardening reduces the elasticity of the brass and alters the "grip" on the bullet, which in turn can affect accuracy. A Square in their loading manual recommends annealing after TWO reloads but I don't detect enough difference in bullet seating at the second reload to suscribe to it. I DO detect the difference around the fourth reload. Over a long period of time, the differences in group size are apparent as the necks harden and annealing is worth it to me both for improved accuracy and extending brass life. On the latter, neck splits are the result with loss of the brass if you don't anneal. I tend to lose my cases to loosened primer pockets after extended use.

Nothing ingenious about annealing. I do mine with a small head on a propane torch, twirl the neck in the blue cone of the torch while holding the brass over a bucket of water, and I drop each piece in after about 6 seconds in the torch. On polished brass the right time to drop is when the shine on the brass gets dull, or your fingers get too hot. You can also use lead in a casting pot, dipping the necks in the lead and dumping them in the water. Some folks even manage twirling the brass in the flame of a candle, but the heat is conducted too fast before you have to drop the brass resulting in insufficient annealing. Brass anneals at anywhere from 482°F all the way up to 1400°F, at which point it burns and is useless. The ideal temperature for annealing 70-30 cartidge brass is 680°F. Less than that it isn't sufficiently elastic, and much more than that it won't grip the bullet properly.

Hi: I've annealed for years using the old rule of thumb methods...but now have started using an annealing kit sold by Hornady, nice progressivly
minded company (Steve are you listening?!).
What the kit has is a case holder that is made to turn in in one of those battery operated screwdrivers (slow speed), but what's nice is you apply a dab of heat paste on each case where they say...put the propane torch (Bernzamatic type) on the case as it rotates...when the pastes melts, thats the proper annealing temp, then just turn the holder down so the case falls into a water quench. Couldn't be simpler..but no guessing as the paste melt indicates the proper annealling temp. Now, also important, if each case neck is annealed at the right temp...then each neck will have the same properties of neck tension..hence more accurate reloads...now aren't you glad you asked?
Best Regards, Tom

What kind of heat paste are you using?

Just a little funny story and polite warning about annealing. I do it sometimes and tried holding them in my hand, by the case head, so as not to overheat the case. I didn't like the way it worked so I started using a Lee case trimmer chuck to spin the case in a cordless screwdriver to evenly heat the neck area. Well, it's a lucky thing I did. I was happily annealing away, when I unwittingly chucked a case in the Lee chuck that I had previously primed and put in with some fired cases. A little heat and BANG, the primer went off. Luckily the Lee chuck contained it all. I hate to think what might have happened if I'd been holding it in my hand. Whew!

Lesson learned, inspect cases carefully before annealing.

You are absolutely right!

I had one go off, but I was holding the case with pliers. The primer went through two layers of sheetrock.

So I guess its safe to say that you anneal before you prime. But before you decap so the brass will be softer and not worked as hard by the expander?

I havent annealed brass in yrs, but when I did, I would stand the in a pan of water, about 1/2". heat the necks and use the end of the tourch to tip them over in the water, never did burn myself.

I have 30X47 cases that were made from .308 cases, that have been fired 35 or 40 times and have never been annealed. If someone is getting the bases hot enough to set off primers, I would certainly think that the base was getting too hot for safty.

Blob 1: The heat paste comes with the kit. Its called Tempilaq and the temp melt is 475 F. I suppose you could buy it separate, but why bother?
The Hornady Kit is cheap enough & comes with 3 diff
size case holders.
Best Regards, Tom

You can buy the paint or crayons made by the same outfit, at a good welding supply company. It's not cheap. You can buy in many different temperature ratings. I tried the 700° Tempstiks early on considering the 680° temperature is what is considered "ideal" and optimum, and it was more trouble than it was worth. They're also a bit expensive at around $10. You can accomplish the same thing by practicing with a half dozen old cases to get the hang of it and after that you are an expert. It's certainly not an exact science and most anyone can easily do it. Any disparity in the elasticity of the neck is miniscule in the effect it has on the bullet grip as long as you are in the ball park.

bisonland, I've never seen this kit you're talking about. Guess I'll check Hornaday's website and thanks for the tip.
What part of Wyoming are you in? I lived in Rock Springs back in the 70s during the boom days of the oil patch. Jim

I use a metal fixture on top of the stove. It's a steel plate with ten caliber-sized nubs that you place the case mouths on and heat is transferred through them to the necks. Put them on at about 5 second intervals. By the the time you're placing the last one on the first one's done. Just chunk case in water and place a new case on nub #1 and keep going. You can really get a nice rhythm going with this deal.

Just a note -- Paint a bit of Tempilaq on the shoulder to verify when they're done. You may find that you like to work at a slower rhythm in which case you wouldn't use all ten nubs. 6.5 cases take about 50 seconds total, but that's with the heat from my burner. .223 cases are supposed to take only 40 seconds or so, but I don't anneal those. The plate ran me about $30 IIRC, 4-5 years ago. If anyone's interested I can dig it out and give you contact info. Of course with this setup, you would need separate plates for each caliber that you anneal, but it is a pretty simple and slick setup.

I hope the first sign of a case problem is a split neck. I don't want to do anything that extends the neck life so that the problem becomes a head problem.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
Just wondering what opinions there are out there on annealing brass and who anneals and when in the reloading sequence.

Hey woods, I've used both the "hold`um in your fingers" and the "pan of water" methods. Both seem to work just fine for me without going to any temp sticks.

No argument with the folks who want to use the temp sticks, but I just don't find that it is a necessary step.

quote:

Benefits?

Extended case life.

quote:

Ingehious methods?

Just the above simple operations.

---

However, if you want to hear a method which is long enough for your unborn children to have children, there is one availabe from the Reverend howl who now "talks down to" folks on 24hourcampfire. It was the method that got him the howl "CARET" factor award of the century. (Complicating Any Relatively Easy Task) I believe it includes the temp sticks too.

Save your money!!! Don't need to buy anything. Simply go to Varmint Al's site and follow his procedure. Works great!!!

http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Anneal

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
Just wondering what opinions there are out there on annealing brass and who anneals and when in the reloading sequence.

Benefits?

Ingehious methods?

I'll go along with Carpetman, for most reloading
it's not necessary, only for thoes with a specific problem. Don't get into difficulties
you don't have to I reckon.
JL

The only time I ever bother Annealing these days is when forming .25-303 brass and thats only after the first form (full length resizing).I have always used the pan of water methord but with the cheapness of brass these days why bother if you dont have to

quote:

Originally posted by HHI6818:
Save your money!!! Don't need to buy anything. Simply go to Varmint Al's site and follow his procedure. Works great!!!

http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Anneal

As one who has training in metallurgy. Varmint Al has a pretty good precedure. I use a similar method whichs uses an old "egg beater" hand drill. Some of you younger shooters may have to see if your grandpa has one......I make snug slightly tapered steel pins (large and small)that are a snug fit into the primer pocket to go into the old drill's chuck to spin the case. Then working in almost dark conditions. (just enough light to see your quench water) I put a thin doeskin glove on my left and hold a propane torch in my right. Turning the old hand drill which has the top handle tightened in my vise (chuck up) with my gloved hand I apply heat to the start of the shoulder (on bottlenecks) Angle the flame upward about 30 degrees. Watch the brass in the heat closely as it pales in color almost looking like steel somewhat, you are close.... and at the VERY FIRST HINT of incandescent, pull torch away and pull case off pin with gloved hand and drop in your cold water container quickly. You are looking for a color metallurgists call "blood red". It is the VERY VERY START of any glow and is a dark maroon color, hence the reason for working in the almost dark. This will give the equivalent of a fresh factory anneal done correctly.

Those that say cases are cheap and last long enough have a good point if the anneal is not done correctly and with uniformity. The shoulder neck area needs to be soft yet still resilient enough to grip the bullet. Not dead soft as Varmint Al un-correctly stated although his heating temps are correct for a still resilient anneal. Dead soft would be a visable red hot (not cherry red) around 1300F or so. Cases heated this hot are good for nothing other than cast bullet and/or low pressure loads.
It is imperative that the head not get hot!! If a primer sets off like the example stated you have let way too much heat get to the head and the brass is ruined for full pressure, not to mention a bad procedure! Done correctly, the head can be held with bare fingers. I only recommend the glove because sooner or later one will be just a little tight on the pin and if your fingers slip up to the heated neck they will blister quick!
This is a procedure better left alone unless strict attention to details are followed. Some necks softer than others in a batch will open groups and bright red heat is worse that just using hard necks until they split.....

BigRx

I've found using the pan of water and tip-em-over technique introduces run-out if the cases are sized and de-primed before annealing. This happens because of the uneven heating on the neck. I've just now purchased the screwdriver adaptor/Tempilaq set-up and I am looking forward to giving it a whirl.