I believe the 30-06 was originally loaded to about 50,000 PSI because of the early model 1903's that had brittle actions because of how they were made. After serial number 850,000 from the Springfield the actions were double heat treated. Serial numbers in the 267,000 or there abouts were double heat treated in the other actions made by the other company that was making 1903's. The Winchester 1895 also was another reason for being loaded down.
------------------ AlleninAlaska
Posts: 1058 | Location: Lodge Grass, MT. Sitka, Bethel, Fort Yukon, Chevak, Skagway, Cantwell and Pt. Hope Alaska | Registered: 24 June 2000
"This is the reason why the .308 has a higher working pressure."
No it isn't! The pressure is higher because it had to be! They wanted a smaller cartridge with the same ballistics as the 30-06. In a modern rifle they can both be loaded to the same pressure.
Posts: 3097 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 28 November 2001
Heedeth not, the idle ramblings of the blasphemous GSF1200, for he hath forsaken the righteous .308. He doth prefereth to smighteth his gameth downeth with lightning bolts from afar.
Brother GSF There is still hopeth for thy Salvation. Load 10 "Our Cartridges" and fire one big "Hail of Bullets". Then asketh St. Whelen for forgiveness and be welcome back into the foldeth.
Ammo
Reverend Elmo First Church of the .308
" Go forth and subtract" Whelen 7.62
Posts: 586 | Location: paloma,ca | Registered: 20 February 2002
Well I don't know if this is exactly it but it probably had something to do with it. The 308 ball round specs from the military needed the bullet to be supersonic at 1000m which might have been one of the contributory factors. A cannelured 144-150gr FMJ boat tail or not has to be going some to do that methinks.
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001
A complex subject with numerous reasons. Brass Q, action strength and the date the ratings were standarized are the primary reasons.
Given the same brass Q, same rifle model- the 06 and 08 can and are loaded to equal max pressures by handloaders. Some will always point to the lines drawn by SAMMI- which isn't a bad thing given the number of neophyte reloaders about.
I've always said- you have to educate yourself as to what is a safe load and what isn't. This takes experience, careful technique and the willingness to accept something less than the last drop of FPS obtainable.
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001
The .30/06 was introduced in 1903 (final and current version 1906). Its original design pressures were limited to the standards of the day, although they were updated in the 20's and 30's. Many different guns and actions, some of them now almost 100 years old, were chambered for this round. Some of them, the lever action 1895 Winchester for example, were significantly weaker than any action for which the much later .308 Winchester (7.62 Nato) was ever INTENDED. SAAMI specs take the cartridge's original design limits and the age of guns chambered for it into account. Therefore, the .30/06 of 1906 and the .308 Winchester of 1955 (almost 50 year more "modern") have different SAMMI pressure standards.
This has NOTHING to do with the basic case (which is identical), or the shoulder angle, length of neck, depth of headstamp engraving, or phase of the moon.
It is true that in similar modern bolt action guns, the .30/06 and .308 can and should be loaded to similar pressure limits. When this is done, the velocity differences between them widen in favor of the larger .30/06 as compared to standard factory ammunition.
Posts: 13245 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
Allen Glore is basically correct, there are a lot of older .30/'06's around of questionable metallurgy and design. The folks who make factory ammo are playing it safe. If you have a strong rifle, there's no reason why you cannot load a .30/'06 to pressures as high as any .308 (or other high-intensity round)!! Just look at the Federal High Energy stuff!!
quote:Originally posted by eldeguello: ...If you have a strong rifle, there's no reason why you cannot load a .30/'06 to pressures as high as any .308 (or other high-intensity round)!! Just look at the Federal High Energy stuff!!
Does Federal load the 30-06 to pressures above 50,000, How about Hornady Light Magnum?
I'm one of those guys who uses the reloading manuals' max load as one of my "pressure signs" (if the bullet and powder manual disagree by a grain or so, I don't mind cautiously using the higher value), and I tend to switch powders if I can't get advertised velocity in the advertised safe range.
I just wondered if manufacturers are going over SAAMI's 50,000 limit (like one might do with 45-70 loads that will not be used in a Trap Door).
H. C.
Posts: 3691 | Location: West Virginia | Registered: 23 May 2001
I doubt that Hornady is exceeding SAAMI specs. What they are likely doing is mixing powders to achieve the desired burn rate to get the increased velocities.
-M
Posts: 4863 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002
When you compare the saami pressures with the same measuring system there isn`t a lot of difference, or a least not as much as people believe. Using piezo PSI the 308 is listed at 62,000psi avg, the 30-06 at 60,000psi avg. Thats 2000 psi difference. I wouldn`t doubt if you ran pressure tests of saami spec ammo the ES of the pressures would have the `06 hitting or very near to the SAAMI 308 avg.If we look at CUP they are rated at 52,000 for the 308 and 50,000 for the `06. Again these are AVG PEAK pressures, I`m sure there are allowable low and peak limits involved but I`m not sure what they are. I don`t think (this always gets me in trouble)age really has as much to do with it either as people seem to believe. The 270 which is less than 20 yr newer (introduced in 1925) than the 30-06 has a rateing of 65,000 piezo, higher than the 30 yr newer 300 win mags 64,000 piezo psi. I have a idea that the army set the standard for both rounds at what they wanted from them at the time for bullet wgt/vel with powders of their specs and SAAMI set the std at that pressure level when they were adopted. As stated these are only my thoughts, although the saami specs listed are legit.
Posts: 2535 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 20 January 2001
I was just looking at my copy of Cartridges of the World again last night. It has a section on U.S. military ammo in the back. Looks like the gov't ammo for the '06 and .308 are all loaded to the same pressure levels...
The reason both are loaded to the same pressure probably has to do with their respective paltforms -- gas operated autos (M1 Garrand, M14, FN-FAL, etc). Pressure levels need to be held in check or you'll screw up the gas system/op rods. Put those cartridges in a bolt action, and it's a different story.
Forget PSI, neither caliber was origanally loaded to PSI, but rather CUP (copper units of pressure). The original SAAMI specs for the .30-06 was 50K CUP. The .308 or 7.62X51 NATO came out to replace the '06 and tried to duplicate performance with a smaller case, hence they had to move up 2000 CUP. In the same rifle,the .30-06 can go the same pressures and ALWAYS better the .308 under any circumstances.
Another note, you will also notice the .25-06, .270, 280 Rem. and others are also rated at higher pressures than the vintage .30-06, although on the same case. The only reason I can figure is that the .30-06 is older and SAAMI is afraid there might be some old guns left around no longer in good health.
What Hornady IS DOING is taking HUGE doses of s l o w burning powder and using it in large amounts, 25% at a time and compressing it with a 25,000 PSI ram, one quarter at a time. I have this article from a long time back when they first started making "light magnums". Now, is this settled??
