I put together some flat point variations of my metallic tipped .35 calibre bullets the other night, and I wonder if I could get some opinions on the safety of these in tubular magazines.

First off, it's my understanding that the primer material is located between an anvil and the base of the primer, and this "explosive" situation is found only in the centre of the primer.

My tips are coming out slightly concave (which isn't a problem for my design). The diameter of the tip is .205 to .210 (I'm still in the developmental stage). I measured some primers, and they come out at just over .210. I also measured the flat points on Speer .35 calibre 180 grain FP bullets, and these come out at about .190.

I believe that since my tips match the size of a primer they will not set it off in a tubular magazine. I believe that any recoil energy will be absorbed by the edges of the primer, and will not be directed against the anvil in the centre.

I would appreciate any comments you may have on the safety of these bullets in tubular magazines (particularly those chambered in .356 Winchester).

I don't have any experience with a true .358, but I do have experience with a .348. Close enough I think. Winchester factory 200 gr silvertips have a relatively pointed flat nose (much smaller than the outside diameter of a large primer) and I have never had any problems. I have used Barnes X's in this but quit after getting some bullets with irregular noses, didn't look safe. I now use Hawk 250 gr .348 bullets and the noses are larger than the primers with a lot of lead exposed.

If in doubt, single feed these bullets. I can guarantee THAT is safe.

You are correct in your assumptions about the design of primers...however, they do not have to be struck directly on the CENTER of the primer/anvil to detonate.

As I cannot see exactly what you are doing or talking about, I cannot advise specifically and am only tossing out IDEAS. Take them for what they are worth.

IF your flat point is flat and mostly lead exposed, then they are basically the same design as is used in all lever actions.

My gut feeling is that if your bullets are indeed FLAT pointed, then they are probably safe. But of course it is not my head and hands holding the rifle.

As I say, if you just want to see how the bullets group or perform in the rifle, just single load them and relax.

Rick, I have re-read your post and tend to agree with your assumptions. Still I am lost as to the purpose or where you are going with this exercise and these bullets???

You mention the bullets are coming out "concave" and I am wondering if you could use something like paraffin wax or such to "smooth over and fill in" the concave feature of your bullet and also to provide something of a cushion for the primers to rest on. (Just a wild thought.)

Let us know.

Pecos:

My bullets have a separate inserted tip which is made from an inverted small bore bullet jacket. This attempt leaves a flat tip that is essentially a hollow gilding metal insert that assists in initial expansion. The bullets will have an .030 jacket and a bonded core.

The slight concave in the tip comes from the pressure exerted in my point forming die. I guess that at swaging pressures, the hollow tip is collapsing slightly. I doubt that it would hold parafin since it's so shallow.

I believe that the effect of these bullets under recoil pressure, meeting the primers of other bullets would be similar to a flat tipped bullet (with the lead lieing flat between the edges of the mouth of the jacket) doing so. I believe that the edge of the tip would be of similar hardness to the edges of a conventional bullet jacket.

I'm making these bullets in my basement, and hope sometime in the near future to be able to sell a few. I've tried this experimental design to (hopefully) appeal to .356 users. I don't believe there are any premium bullets made for the .356. I don't even own one. All of my .35's are in guns that could use pointed bullets (BLR, 2-Rem. Pumps and a mauser custom).

Thanks for your help.

Rick

Hey Rick, Glad to see you've not given up on the project. I was wondering a couple of months ago how you were doing on it when I was messing with my 350RemMag.

Anyway, the only way I know for sure to find out what is going to happen, is to "Dynamically Test" the Meplat-to-Primer interface with an impact force well above the anticipated recoil force(for the Lawyers).

I'm certainly not putting down any brain-storming on the issue, but until you test it, all of it is pure speculation.

I visualize a steel plate or pipe mounted in a vise (or some other holding device) with a hole in it big enough to accept and retain a "Primed Case". An old piece of a barrel chambered for any cartridge using a Large Rifle Primer would be perfect for this, but not totally necessary. It does need to be strong enough to withstand multiple impacts and retain it's integrity.

After positioning the Primed Case, one of your Bullets would be positioned above the primer and a weight dropped onto the bullet. Here again, the idea would be to control the position of the Bullet, but allow you to "skew" the Meplat-to-Primer interface a small amount horizontally(to simulate movement inside the magazine tube) from drop to drop. Perhaps a plate attached to a rod with a 0.360" hole in the plate. The rod would allow you to rotate it into the selected Test Position above the Primed Case and lock it into position.

Then a guillotine style Drop Weight to create the consistent repeatable impact. Your weight should be well above the Recoil Impact Force to give a SAFETY Margin that the 35Rem and 356Win rifles have zero chance of attaining.

You would absolutely want to:
1. Maintain meticulous records of the Testing.
2. Have a VCR Tape showing a portion of the Testing being done.
3. Retain the actual Test Equipment so it can be reused in court if the same low-life involved in the Remington lawsuits for a livelyhood decides to come after you(surely you know who I mean).
4. You will want to repeat the Test for a large number of Primers.
4.A. Multiple hits on the Primers to simulate being in the magazine tube for multiple shots.
5. After the Testing, get a good Liability Insurance Policy for your Bullet Business to cover any unforseen problems.

Product Design Evaluation Engineering is my background, and that is the kind of thing we would do in order to satisfy my concerns as well as the Lawyers.

Best of luck to you as you go forward.