My bolt rifle (custom Winchester Model 52 with a Lilja barrel) really likes the SK subsonic HPs. Accuracy at 50 yds. generally runs 3 shots around 1/4 inch. I have been recently using a Zeiss 4.5 X 14 X 44 scope with the Rapid Z 800 reticule. Zero at 50 yds.; 14 yds. 1/2 inch low; 25 yds 1/2 inch high; on at 50 yds; 75 yds on using bar # 1; 100 yds 1/2 inch high using bar # 5. Scope set at 10 X. Using SK High Velocity HPs with scope set at 12 X using bar 4.5 at 100 yds. 1/2 inch high. This scope focuses down to 30 yds -side focus. I have found if a squirrel appears at 15 yds. I turn the eye piece to help focus. I am very satisfied with the scope. Unfortunately the cost is around $ 825.00. Now to find a cooperative squirrel at 75 or 100 yds. to test all of this. I have used Eley subsonics in past years. Very good also. The SKs appears a bit more accurate in my rifle. I do not know if subsonics will cycle your 10-22. If so experiment with some of the subsonic rounds.
Good Luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim M.:
My bolt rifle (custom Winchester Model 52 with a Lilja barrel) really likes the SK subsonic HPs. Accuracy at 50 yds. generally runs 3 shots around 1/4 inch. I have been recently using a Zeiss 4.5 X 14 X 44 scope with the Rapid Z 800 reticule. Zero at 50 yds.; 14 yds. 1/2 inch low; 25 yds 1/2 inch high; on at 50 yds; 75 yds on using bar # 1; 100 yds 1/2 inch high using bar # 5. Scope set at 10 X. Using SK High Velocity HPs with scope set at 12 X using bar 4.5 at 100 yds. 1/2 inch high. This scope focuses down to 30 yds -side focus. I have found if a squirrel appears at 15 yds. I turn the eye piece to help focus. I am very satisfied with the scope. Unfortunately the cost is around $ 825.00. Now to find a cooperative squirrel at 75 or 100 yds. to test all of this. I have used Eley subsonics in past years. Very good also. The SKs appears a bit more accurate in my rifle. I do not know if subsonics will cycle your 10-22. If so experiment with some of the subsonic rounds.
Good Luck.

I have a case of "Aguila Super SE Extra subsonic". Was at the range not long ago and a gent was there with a auto loading pistol and I gave him 5 or so to try. The cases would extract but get caught on the way out. So they would wedge as if someone put the case in to prop the slide open. Otherwise they worked fine. Just had to finish cycling the slide.
I have yet to Zero out my scope and sight it in so I couldn't tell you how good they are. But the operate just fine in all my 22's. Sorry guys none are semi's only bolts.
Soon as I get to the range and sight them in, I will post results.

I've been buying bricks of that Aquila SE in hollowpoint and soft point, to shoot in my CZ452. Very nice accuracy, clean burning, quiet, and hit hard enough for dropping ground hogs and coons and anything on down from there.

I'm sighted x on at 50yds, but I've been shooting them out to 165yrds at my home range so much that ringing the gong has gotten old. The friends and family still enjoy it though.

There is no better way to practice rifle technique than with a .22.

I tried about 15 different types of ammo in my Kimber and the Aguila SS was about the worst. Win T22 subs are the most accurate with a 1/4in 50yd group so I can place them where I want on rabbits. Rem Cyclone is the best super-sonic load with 1/2 groups. Both are good inside 100yds but the oportunity to shoot that close is very rare here now. Have gone to my 20VT exclusively now so the little Kimber languishes, virtually un-used.

Von Gruff.

+1 on the PMC moderators

I've had good luck accuracy-wise with both the Aguila 60 gr subsonic and Remington subsonic hollowpoints. CCI CB Longs have always disappointed, but it's kinda fun to watch them arcing toward the target on a rainbow trajectory.

CCI LR subsonic HPs have been the most accurate round I have shot through any of my 22's,,, work well on small game as well,,,, but I do not have a 10/22,,,, 8-9 other makes and models though

A friend came to visit and brought some subsonic .22 rounds with him.

We were shooting them from a .22 revolver, a .22 semi-auto pistol and a lever action rifle.

I didn't think they were all that much quieter than conventional rounds. I did notice though that the semi-auto pistol didn't like feeding them consistently. About every third or fourth round would hang up and have to be cleared.

My wife uses SUBSONICS to clear the garden of squirls and groundhogs. She shoots a no more than 30 feet.
Subsonics will shoot ABOUT 4 inches lower than regular ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by MADISON:
My wife uses SUBSONICS to clear the garden of squirls and groundhogs. She shoots a no more than 30 feet.
Subsonics will shoot ABOUT 4 inches lower than regular ammo.

Huh, what brand of ammo? 4" seems kind of extream, then again it could be the rifle operator or brand of ammo....
When I say rifle it could be something as simple as the camber, is it a loose chamber or a tight chamber? That could change alot.
But then again its entirely possible it will drop that fast due to the extream difference in fps.
My hold over at 100yds with a 50yd zero is almost 2' at target.
So I m just rambling, its entirely possible.

I've killed at least 100 squirrels with the CCI CB Long.

Very accurate - less noise than an air rifle.

I've shot the SSS, as noted here, it's not stable out of (most) rifles.



Tinker

I use Rem Subs these days.They're the only subs I've tried so far but they shoot great in my Ruger 10/22 and Savage MKII BV.Of all the others I tried only Fed Gold Medal shot a smidge better.Not enough to justify the added cost but at the time I got a good price on a 500rd brick.After I use these up though I'll see what the price difference is then.

I have a carton of old remington shorts. I am going to site my CZ in with them at 50 feet. They make great close range ammo because they don't make any noise in a bolt gun. Like the poster above said, "quieter than a pellet gun"
DW

I got a bunch of the sub sonics ammo from a walmart in NC. Tried them in my Marlin Semi-auto and they would not feed. Nor would they feed in my Remington VIper.

In a bolt, pump or lever action they should be perfect rounds for backyard varmint extermination.

Funny thing is, when I purchased my rounds. I said hey are those rounds subsonic? He says YEs they are. I say oh man thats great that means they are a little more quiet. He says, no they are hotter thana normal 22LR. He could not understad the subsonic means that the bullet is traveling slower than the speed of sound and creates no sonic boom. so its quieter...

I like the CCI CB Longs also. they really are just as quiet as an air rifle. when I had my scope on, they were pretty accurate too. got a couple squirrels with them, but that's it. If you need quiet, CCI is the way to go. the remingtons are a lot louder

I recently got 3000 rounds of Aguila SS .22 from Ssportsman's Guide. Guess that keeps me stocked for a while. This is basically for glorified plinking and possible self defense. These would be used in a 10-22 and a marlin semi-auto rifle depending on which feeds best.

Most rabbit shooting over here in the UK is done with bolt-action .22LR rifles and sub-sonic ammunition. As we are routinely allowed to moderate our rifles, this kind of round makes for seriously stealthy hunting - I can just about hear the firing pin strike on mine.

For small game - rabbits, squirrels etc - they are as good as any other .22LR rounds in a B/A rifle. At closer range below 60 yards, they're also fine on larger quarry like foxes and stuuf like Canada Geese. I mostly use Winchester Super-X subs.

Adam.

I have not used subsonic hollow points but have shot a lot of rabbits and squirrels with subsonic solids (Eley shorts 900 fps) and with CB shorts. I have also used high speed hollow points and high speed solids. I am sure high speed hollow points have more killing power. However, the quiet subsonic solids seem to do real well. I think that is because animals seem to get less scared because there is less noise. And remember that the sonic crack of the high speed bullets is occuring where the bullet enters the animal. I think the high speed solids give the poorest results. That is, they seem to have no more killing power than low speed solids and the extra noise seems to get the hit animals to run farther before expiring. I recnetly read a book by an autistic lady who seems to understand animals much better than "normal" people. She designs "humane" slaughterhouses and says that animals are much less concerned with pain than humans but they feal fear much more than humans. Maybe a quiet rifle is a lot more humane than a loud one?

This animal response business is a good reason to call for the use of silencers on hunting guns. Unfortunately in America there is a $200 transfer fee through the feds and these are banned in Illinois and some other places. This is a stupid policy as the criminal aspect is irrelevant as anyone who insists on using such a device would make one. However most criminals don't bother and the mechanics and size are an issue. The humane aspect of this (from the slaughterhouse and hunting aspect) and being an idea originated by a disabled female would make it hard to resist among the otherwise anti-gun twits.

The book was "Animals in Translation" by Temple Grandin. I bought it for two reasons. First I thought it might give me a little insight into animal thinking which would be an advantage for a hunter. Second, psychology, human intellegence and animal intellegence have always interested me. One thing she said which would be applicable to hunting was in regard to animals' vision. They can see the color yellow, and a yellow moving thing tends to get them very alert. So don't where yellow when hunting. Since animals' fear is comparitively more important than pain in regard to being humane, hunting would not necesarrily be inhumane. Shooting an animal that is unaware of what is going on would not cause a lot of stress compared to what some so called animal lovers do. That is, I know anti-hunting people who had an injured cat which I think needed to be put out of its misery. Instead they made repeated trips to the vet which would cause the poor critter a lot of fear and then tried to keep it alive when its injury whould have caused a lot of prolonged pain. They were well intended but cruel.

I've only used the CCI CB's, but have been itching to try out the 60gr agulias. They hit essentially the same point of aim out to 25 yards in my ruger mark III (didn't try any longer), but they don't cycle. Not loud at all.

In my .22 rifle all you hear is the firing pin striking the back of the case, impressively quiet.

I purchased a Remington Nylon 11 bolt action when I was in college in the 1960's,had a weaver 4 power 22 scope installed in Tucson.I still have it and am using it to train my grandsons,my 9 yr old hits clays placed on a 100 yard backstop using CCI Blazer 22lr ammo www.midsouthshooterssupply.com It fires CCI CB caps with great accuracy putting digger squirrels & other varmints down.

I use both. The one that is the most accurate for a given rifle gets the knod.
WYLD

Adam .270 sums up the UK situation with subsonics very well, being accustomed to taking 700 rabbits in a weekend, he has a little experience!

I will add that in my experience the subsonic hollowpoints kill better than the 60 grain Aguila load on chest shots at rabbit sized game.

I use Eley .22LR subs in my Walther and zero at 50 yards. It's trajectory is pretty loopy so getting close is the main object of the game. With a moderator it is often possible to ba a few before the rest run off.

Just got another 'chuck today with RWS subsonic. 50 yds from 26" barrel .Rifle set for HS so need 1" hold over with subs. I do find that about half the time with body shots they run off - but the're never seen again ! If someone fires outside ,inside with windows closed you don't hear it !

I use both Rem and CCI Subsonics in my Ruger MK2 and Rem 552. Hollowpoints are bigger, both are very accurate and, if you miss-there is not the "sonic crack" of a high speed bullet startling the animal. They hear the muzzle report, but nothing close to them, Follow-up shots are much easier.

Have used Remington HP sub sonic for years in two different 10/22 bull barrels. Good accuracy and no problems dropping rabbits or tin cans. Don't miss the noise at all and if I do my part will outshoot my buddies loud HV ammo.

While beding rabbitts after a snow, I have killed two,close together with CBs but I wouldn't even shoot at one over 30 yards! Tony

Remington has re-introduced the CB22. It is now a 33gr HP at 740fps. CCI also has a new subsonic round called QUIET 22LR and boasts a 40gr bullet @710fps. I have ordered a brick of each for testing and evaluation.

drewhenrytnt I got a feeling the CCI QUIET is going to be the best of the subsonics in terms of quietness and that 40gr bullet should perform well on close by headshots on bigger things

Lal, Drewhenrytnt, CCI Quiet's are extremely quiet indeed. I regularly use these in built up areas of London and with a moderated gun, you can be 10 feet away and have no clue as a member of the public. They still have plenty of power to dispatch small vermin at close ranges and I've now swapped over to them as a result for cage dispatch and back garden vermin control. The 40 grain bullet means that most 22 rifles out there will digest them with good degrees of accuracy compared to other offerings like RWS Zlang with its 29 grain pill. Gets a double thumbs up from me.

I have found the Winchester sub-sonics available here in NZ to be very accurate and quiet and kill small game well with their big hollow point soft lead bullet.

Consider that when using sub-sonics or standard velocity ammo in semi-autos it is the momentum figure that determines if a semi-auto will cycle properly i.e. the formula for momentum is M x V (not energy at MV squared) so as the velocity is limited to just below speed of sound it is the bullet mass (weight) that has to be up to ensure good cycling. I have found the 40gr subsonics work reliability in most semi's and the newer Winchesters at 42 grs are potentially even better.

Some so called super quiet 60gr subsonics while having a heavier bullet also are down in velocity (in the 900fps MV range) instead of the usual 1040fps of the 40 gr subsonics.

Also to maximise the momentum applied to the semi-auto bolt the rifle should be held firmly to the shoulder not limp wristed allowing the rifle to move slightly backwards.

I have used a lot and seen a lot of others using subsonics in a variety of semiautos including Ruger 10/22s and in my own Gevarm carbine and never seen problems with cycling other than if the rifle is allowed to build up gunk and is not cleaned occasionally.

quote:

Originally posted by nugman:
I get a kick out of the 22 LR "subsonic" questions.

Aren't all standard velocity 22 LR sub-sonic? Just because a company puts a label on it that states "Sub Sonic", and charges 30-50% more per 50 rounds doesn't make it better.

My 2 cents.

In some ways you are correct except many of the better sub-sonic rounds have a larger hollow nose (certainly the Winchester sub-sonics I use do)and they perform well on game. A lot of the 'standard' target ammo you speak of are either solids or small hollow point made as a low cost target ammo.
As to difference in performance on game, each to his own and I guess it is a matter of what works best in your rifle and on the type of game you are hunting. I hunt a lot of big well feed rabbits, the larger hare and the tough to kill possum, and have always found the Win subbies work extremely well in the little Gevarm carbine. These are 42gr lead (soft dark lead) projectiles with a big deep hollow point that smack hard and do a lot of damage inside. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the heavy projectile also helps to cycle semis better too.

I know of a few hunters who have taken deer (head shots) with these subsonics when they have come across them within range when spotlighting for possums and rabbits.

Have tried all types when I bought my new CZ 452,Eley,Magtech,CCI,Rem,Win etc, right selection. My favorite, hands down, are the RWS subsonic HP, 40 grain, really quiet, especially when I fit the old, but brilliant Parker-Hale sound moderator. My visiting American hunting buddies wondered if the rifle had gone off !!!
Not always the easiest to find, so I always buy a 500 round 'brick'. Love RWS ammo, cases ,etc for my centerfires.
Hope this helps..

Personally I have had excellent accuracy in my rifle with Win Subs AND Remington. The Rem's I have had a few duds, but I just lift the bolt close it and fire it again, then it goes off. Wish we could get the better Eley, RWS etc down here but very difficult.

I grew up around a lot of Old Timers who out of need used .22 a lot back during the Great Depression for filling the icebox, and they all agreed on three things when it came to using the .22 on deer:
1). Keep all shots under 50 yards
2). Don't use hollowpoints
3). Don't use high velocity ammo.

Makes sense to me. Keep the range short in order to ensure perfect bullet placement. Since penetration is of more value then energy transfer when you don't have much energy to start with, a hollowpoint only works against you. I'm not sure why they were so down on HV ammo back then, but these old codgers shot a lot of deer and all agreed that the standard velocity worked better. Maybe the HV ammo of the mid-1930's had accuracy or consistency issues compared to SV? I duhno- they're all dead and gone so it's too late to ask.

PeteT.

I have taken groundhogs with Rem subsonic HPs to the head. have been playing with CCI,s Quiet 22 but have not tried them on game yet. As to the SSS 60 gr from Aquila I have been impressed with their penetration in pressure treated 2x4.
Thinking about building a 10/22 for them.

I've hunted fox squirrels quite a bit with Rem. sub-sonic loads. If hit through the chest they were normally pretty slow killers, frequently allowing a squirrel to reach their nest. High speed hollow points kill much faster, although you will lose some meat. Standard high velocity bullets kill faster than sub-sonics without the excessive meat lose of the hollow points. I finally settled on the standard high speed cartridges as the best compromise. This was before all the manufacturers marketed 12 different varieties of 22LR ammo each.

In my C.Z, I use RWS Subsonics, though a Parker Hale Sound moderator, very accurate and the quietest I have found. Eley 'subs' are good, but have that cat piss smell powder...

I use whatever the rifle tells me it likes. I have one that prefers the infamous Remington HSHP even. Usually, SK or Rem or Fed 711b give me the best accuracy out of my hunting guns. One prefers the Federal Automatch too-and my standard of accuracy is 1" groups at 50 yds off the bench--minute of squirrel head