OK Guys and Gal,

The checks are coming in and Doug our guy at Lee says it will be no trouble to have the mold cast wheel weight pellets to spec.

I'm cutting off orders as of November 1.

These are one cavity heavy .177 pellet molds. If you want one and don't have my snail mail email me at rootdr101(at)cs(dot)com. They're $21.50 delivered to your door in the US

Using Grumble's example I'll list checks in house.

KT 97058 (2)

EB 64503 (2)

AN 84601 (1)

KD 59923 (1)

RT 97754 (1)

RH 93306 (1)

PH 25275 (1) to Carpetman

Mike

I will stop accepting orders for the .177 Viper pellet mold on Saturday November 1st. I'm still missing some who said they wanted the mold.

Remember this is the heavy pellet, in a single cavity mold. Delivered to you $21.50. All proceeds will go to the April Fools Roots Roost cast bullet shoot.

I'll also use the Felix /Grumble method of letting the buyers know that I have their checks.

2 KT 97058
1 to carpetman/penny
1 JA 28311
2 EB 64503
1 AN 84601
1 KD 59923
1 RA 76087
1 JS 87821
3 CP 60050
1 KM 60068
2 DK 07208
1 RH 93306
1 RT 97754
1 RH 21788

Questions or concerns?

rootdr101(at)cs(dot)com

Mike

[ 10-30-2003, 14:52: Message edited by: maxthompson ]

Lost Cajun just checked in. Is Mark White out there?

Mike

Mike,

E-mail headed your way.

Later,

To see more information on the Viper pellet, look in the "Hello, your name" bar and click on <<Cast Bullets>>.

This will back you up to the main menu, where you will see a 2 page discussion on the Viper pellet (along with drawings and discussion about why it works so well at long distances).

Oldfeller

I want both molds. I just discovered this forum and thread today and want to get in on this deal. If I am too late will there be another chance? I really want a mold in both calibers.

If you want one and don't have my snail mail email me at rootdr101(at)cs(dot)com. They're $21.50 delivered to your door in the US

I think this is what you are supposed to do.

Oldfeller

I just got a request for a mold from France. Does anyone here have experience shipping overseas?

I need help on this one.

Mike

That's a new one. Ask your local US Post Office for the shipping charges to "his place" in France, they will check on it and get back to you with some exorbiant cost or another.

Fex Ex would be my other check point place. These foreign rates go up unannounced and with big swings in prices, so charge enough up front to cover the next price increase (or else you get to pay the difference).

Oldfeller

[ 11-02-2003, 01:36: Message edited by: Oldfeller ]

I am new here but I would like to have a mold in 22 if its not to late

All you "just as the gangplank goes up" guys had better get a pronto e-mail to:

rootdr101@cs.com

so that you can get the address to send Mike a $21.50 check before he places the quantity with LEE and locks down the production run.

Mike, is there any leeway in placing the order past this upcoming Monday-Tuesday? If not, all these new lists had better communicate real quick to spread the news to their buddies if they are going to have time to get in on the deal.

Oldfeller

I presently have checks for 21 molds and promises of checks for another twelve. I will be ordering extras but can't guarantee what they might sell for. If you want one let me know. I'll order on a real promise. I can't send the order till Monday anyway.
Send $21.50 but please let me know it's on its way.

Mike

Over the weekend I got another check and several more promises. Lost Cajun yours made it Saturday. I have thirty plus promises so I'll be ordering forty molds today or tomorrow. If you want one at the $21.50delivered price please let me know today.

With the success of the .177 mold watch this space for info on the 22.

Remember all proceeds go the the April Fools Root's Roost cast boolit shoot. I'll be posting more on that event as time gets closer. The tractor is running and work begins this week on target lanes and campsites.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions,

Mike

would like a mold if it's not to late! I just found out about this today and am very interested. Just sent you an email.

Mike, is it going to be first come, first served on your extra molds that you are ordering? Or do late people need to send you a check (kept uncashed) to be put on the short list for the extra molds?

I kept a very short "extras" list and I made durn sure I didn't get stuck with any left over molds at the end of the first order. Of course, I had Midsouth coming on stream to pick up the slack so nobody got left out in the cold, but there won't be any Midsouth on this one since they putzed out on us.

Sounds like there are going to be some sad, unhappy late people out there who just don't know about it yet.

What would the cost per mold be on another 25 run of .177 Viper molds? I know the shipping costs have gone up abruptly in the US just recently and you still need to raise some more money for the spring April Fools shoot. You might need to charge more if you have to go around again.

Plus, you have folks who are dialing in from all over the world now trying to get their hands on a Viper mold (which may or may not be strictly legal to shoot in their locality what with the muzzle energy limitations they have) -- you had better expect you are going to get stuck a time or two -- on the international shipping costs if nothing else.

I'd plan for it up front in your pricing. Besides, who knows how long it will be before our own domestic liberal "busy-body" lawmakers notice it and declare the Viper to be --too dangerous--?

Get one while you can.

Oldfeller

=================================

P.S. I finally located the infamous deer skull post, it was buried in another thread. Penny (a female airgun shooter) was asking if we were serious about being able to poke a hole in a deer's cranial cavity with a .177 Viper pellet.

The theory as expressed was "if you can blow a hole through a cinder block, then ...." Penny was not all that pleased with the fully thought out and researched deer skull idea all that much, but ordered a mold anyway.

Here it is:

"Penny,

I take it your deer question is serious, so I'll try to give it a go.

A deer's skull is quite thin in some places. Specifically in the area directly back behind the eye socket on both does and bucks.

You can view a deer skull by typing the word into your browser (or looking here).

http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~wjh101/hedbone/Fallow/fallow.htm

http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~wjh101/hedbone/Axis/axis.htm

http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~wjh101/hedbone/Red/red.htm

Note on all female species examples that the skull thins out radically back behind the eye sockets (this thin area is right over the brain cavity itself). Remember to always aim above the jaw bone itself if you are aiming back behind the bony eye socket ridge.

Bucks are a tougher shot, aiming for behind the antler ridge on a buck is a much tougher shot as the brain is partially protected by the antler support structure. The brain appears to be a much smaller available target on a buck. The jaw bone and muscles are still back there, so you would have aim above them to avoid the jawbone itself and that puts you close to the antler support region. You still have to go through all the jaw muscles too. Bucks are tough targets, very well protected by both antler and jaw bone.

How big is that target zone on a doe? Less than an inch and a half. However, please remember air gunners have been popping bunny rabbits in the head for years at similar distances, so this is not a completely un-doable thing accuracy-wise.

It really all depends on the head angle you are presented with. Just remember on a buck the exposed area of the brain is smaller, the head is "harder" and the brain location is BEHIND and below the antlers (still in line with the eye socket). Bucks would be really tough, lots of muscle and jawbone and antler protect their brain case pretty well.

To avoid having your .177 Viper pellet slowed down by going through all the jaw muscles, a angled shot back through the softer ocular tissues back into the brain case might be a more effective shot placement on a buck. The ocular tissue density is much less and the skull is quite thin behind it (complete with a thinned out skull area for the optic nerve).

On a buck this might be your easiest, most effective air-gun head shot. Actually, unless you get a shot at a buck with the top of his head down grazing it may be your only realistic shot. This means much shorter practical shooting distances, say less than 75 yards?

If you can't place your shots on a quarter reliably at the range you are going to be shooting at and you are not certain of a nice steady rest (and your nerve) please don't try to do this deer trick. I personally couldn't really pull this off nerve-wise, I don't think.

Ugh (shiver) just thinking about shooting a sweet brown-eyed Bambi boy back through his eyeball at a slant angle like that. Cold, very cold.

I expect only a few people would have the raw nerve needed to brain-shoot a deer with a 1,250 fps adult air rifle (and those few would certainly be called "unsportsmanlike" or worse for having done so). In my state it would certainly be illegal anyway as .177 would be sub-caliber for deer hunting.

Still, the discussion over it would help move the remaining 10 molds as a deer's skull isn't as tough as a cinder block by any means.

Now, about your cat question. Either Carpetman or the boys on the Small Game board can fill you in on that one. I really don't think they are talking about mountain lions or tigers and such.

(better hurry up with that order guys, it will be illegal/immoral real quick now. The wimmen are on to us already)

<g>

Oldfeller"

[ 11-08-2003, 23:57: Message edited by: Oldfeller ]

Update on the .177 mold. I've had to hold off on the order for the mold because I've received more late requests than I did before the cutoff. I'm waiting a few more days for checks to come in and clear so I don't end up with a bunch of wanted but unpaid for molds. I don't want to dig too deep now so please be patient.

Mike

By the way tractor is running great now and I'm working on the road and shooting lanes. I'll be ready for the April Fools Root's Roost East Coast Cast Boolit Shoot.

Here is a link to the discussion on barrel twist rates and a minor retune of the .177 Viper pellet to better accomodate 1 in 16" twist rates.

http://www.nookhill.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=19;t=001241

I will be changing the drawing that is the source graphic for all the blueprints and diagrams you have been looking at lately (as soon as we finalize the design changes that is).

Oldfeller

Here is the drawing for the minor re-tune of the .177 Viper pellet so it accomodates 14-16 twist rate barrels.

http://images.ofoto.com/photos493/7/55/93/2/92/0/92029355705_0_ALB.jpg

Thanks to the Talon guys for pointing out the twist rate issues with the slower barrels. We could not accomodate the 18 twist Lothar / Walther barrels, but were able to accomodate the 14-16 twist rate barrels.

18 twist is just too too slow for the size and weight of this pellet.

For those of you who wanted to hold off sending your $21.50 check for fearing "twist rate problems" you need to get up with Mike as soon as you read this to get your check in to Mike.

Mike is planning to close the order for the .177 Viper this week. He is already the best part of 2 weeks behind his initial planned schedule and has enough orders for the production run and I don't think he is going to wait any more.

Oldfeller

[ 11-12-2003, 19:53: Message edited by: Oldfeller ]

Fellas and Gal,

I have received a couple of more checks and more promises. I will be accepting no more promises and expect all the checks to be in this week so I can place the order.

Oldfeller has suggested a redesign for chinese air-guns. I personally believe the whole idea behind the original was the extra weight carried.

I plan to order the original design since that is what was originally proposed. If there is any question about this pellet please let me know now. The last thing any of us and especially me want is to dilute the interest so we don't have our original 25 orders.

Mike

Mike,

A better way of thinking about it is that we have a wider range of twist rates to cover than was originally known and I have done a mild retuning of the design to accomplish that end. This is not a radical change, BTW, the pellet looks pretty much the same proportionally.

http://images.ofoto.com/photos493/7/55/93/2/92/0/92029355705_0_ALB.jpg

It is certainly a responsible position to take that you want to have the thing work in all the current 12 thru 16 twist airguns (the vast majority of what are out there).

As you look at the drawing, also note the blunt statement that some 18 twist barrels, the Lothar / Walther barrels in particular likely would not work even with the redesign. Blunt, but honest.

If you run with the original design, just know up front that people with 16 twist barreled guns may very well have some keyholing issues. Also, the orginal design is MASSIVE and will require a 1,250 fps supermagnum to get its best ballistics. I think you will find most of the folks actually ordering don't have one of these supermagnums and could perhaps stand to lose a little pellet weight.

I really don't know all the user comments you may have recieved from various folks recently, just understand the re-tuned design was made available to you in a timely fashion (prior to order placement).

As the order man, you will call the shot on this item. Obviously, if I didn' think it was worth the effort to opimize and re-tune it, I wouldn't have taken the effort to do it.

Your call.

Oldfeller

I'm down for either design, but the slightly lighter version sounds as if it would be better for my purposes. I'm using an RWS-52 to eliminate cats and possums. S/F...Ken M

As of five PM Wdnesday Nov 12, here is the complete list of checks in house. Using the Grumble/Felix method.

KT 97058 2

RL 76905 1

JA 29311 1

EB 64503 2

AN 84601 1

KD 59923 1

RA 76087 1

RH 21788 1

RT 97754 1

RH 93306 1

DK 07208 2

KM 60068 1

CP 60050 3

JS 87821 1

CC 32905 2

TW 55419 1

BB 90650 1

MF 94122 1

PI 4700 EUPEN 1

DM 46016 1

JB 47272 1

MW 62065 1

JS 84318 2

This is a total of thirty molds paid for so far. I have several more promises but must cut off this week. Initial order will be for probably forty molds if I get a few more checks.

I'm going ahead with the original design. Response to the twenty two caliber mold has been good but as you see even after an extended period we barely met the custom mold criteria of twenty five.

Any questions or concerns please contact me directly.

Orders are cutoff as of now. I'll order a couple of extras but all the promises that held up the original order have only resulted in five more molds.

Last checks in H.M 53310, J.M 76113.

I'll contact Pat al Lee tomorrow and submit the order. I'll keep everyone up to date on status as I have more info.

Thanks all