After 50 years of reloading I've finally decided to try the 30-30. I'd like to use cast loads using the RCBS 150Gr GC mold and air cooled wheel weights for target and possibly hunting. Regarding hunting, southern whitetails, what velocity do I need to work towards for reliable expansion? Everything else I've shot cast in is big bore and expansion was not a great consideration.
Thanks

30 cal may be enough? 6mm sure isn't. Used cast bullets with a .243 and deer ran off, not a drop of blood found.

That's exactly what I want to avoid! The smallest cast round I've used hunting is a 375 2 1/2" and it appeared to have expanded well at about 1800 fps, total penetration with a quarter size exit hole. I can always shoot cast in the off season and switch to jacketed for hunting. Thans for your time!

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
30 cal may be enough? 6mm sure isn't. Used cast bullets with a .243 and deer ran off, not a drop of blood found.

I never worry about expansion with cast bullets.

I shot deer with cast bullets out of 22 hornet and killed them just fine.

Many have been killed with 22lLF.

With the smaller caliber don't expect much of a blood trail.

One incident does not make a trend.

Especially when one has no evidence of what happened.

I would not be afraid to shoot deer with a 150gr 30cal cast bullet at anything over 1000fps.

At normal 30-30 cast bullet speeds no problem at all.

One just has to know what range one can place it into the vitals.

P dog shooter--You bring up several valid points which I do agree with. I have zero evidence as to what happened and can only guess. This was close range and an easy shot. My grandson had shot many deer before this and is a good shot. I don't believe he missed. My shot was also an easy one and I don't believe I missed. Not cast bullets, but with jacketed bullets I have seen numerous deer killed with .222 and .223 and firmly believe a bullet of any size in the vitals equals a dead deer. This one incident only makes a trend with me, I'll use jacketed bullets. If large cast bullets are needed, I'll pass on the rainbow trajectory and stick with jacketed. Cast bullets do have places with me and I use them, but not on deer. That's just me, I realize others have success with them.

that RCBS bullet is the same one I use to hunt Mule Deer with from time to time.
easy peasy ww alloy and somewhere around
19-2000 fps is enough to about 100 yds.

I can guarantee 2400 fps with that bullet and a body hit on a ruffed grouse is a bit over kill.

Thanks for the replies gentlemen! I think I'll work on a load that gets me about 1850-1900 fps and see how that works out. Based on Lamar's comment I am encouraged, our southern whitetails are about half the size of an Idaho muley so if it works for him.....
Best.

it works for a lot of people.
150-180gr 30 cal bullets at about 1900 fps. has killed a lot of deer.
just nobody outside the casting community really knows or talks about it, let alone tries it.

I've probably seen well over 200 pictures of autopsies, and in person entrance/exit wounds of deer taken with cast bullets over the last 20 years or so.

any more velocity than 2-K is too much [expansion and meat loss] without a different meplat diameter.
[I use a very small meplat in my 358 win., but I'm pushing a 250gr. bullet right close to 2400 fps. in that rifle]
and going slower than about 1400 fps. still works just not as efficiently past about 50-60 yds.
without softening up the alloy, and upping the weight to the 180+ range.

If you want expansions don’t be afraid to stick them in the shoulder. WW cast bullets with a flat nose are good killers.

To me it seems pointless to shoot deer size game with cast bullets or any bullet at those velocities and not saying it can't be done, but I know of instances such a yours..I have killed deer with a 22 L.R. on our ranch in Mexico to feed a fencing crew and with good results, but it sure limits your options as you have to pass up some easy shots..

I still hunt from time to time with my 30-30s on both deer and elk..I like the Barnes X 150 gr.FP HP for elk and any good soft point for deer at around 2200 to near 2300 fps, and I know it will work...

but to each his own..you limit your range with cast and even softs in the smaller caliber..but any bullet will work good if you use it right.

Ray.
you can exceed those Jacketed velocities with a cast Bullet.
unfortunately when you shoot something without the copper wrapper, and if you have a 65% meplat you end up with a varmint bullet.

you have to experiment a little if your gonna use a higher velocity.
but the parameters above will kill a deer just as fast as a copper wrapped core will, and all they way out to as far as a 30-30 is capable of.

Lamar/Ray et all,Thanks for the advise! I just cracked open my last can of SR 4759 and loaded a few each at what should be 1600, 1700 & 1800 fps. We'll see how these do, should be able to get to the range Tuesday. Have a great Memorial day and please remember those for whom this day is dedicated.
Thanks Gentlemen!

OK, I think I've got it. 17 gr of SR4759 got me an average of 1855 fps and a 2 1/2" group at 100 yds for 5 shots. That meets my needs quite nicely and with no signs of leading. The rifle is an old Savage 219, 1st generation, with a 1-4X scope. Far from fancy but it does have a slick look to it and handles nicely. Thanks again guys for all the help and encouragement, this small bore stuff is a bit different but it could be fun and powder seems to go a lot further when you use 20 gr vs 60-80!

Put them through the vitals and will Likely have an exit hole that leaks quite nicely.
And a dead deer…

Carpetman1
The post is old, but the information may well be important to carry forth and discuss.
What 24 caliber projie (weight and shape),
What alloy,
What Velocity,
What distance to hit,
Where was projie placed,
Game size,
and
reaction to hit?

TCLouis---The bullet was the 95 grain RCBS mold. There is a question about velocity. The book said about 2400 fps, but a guys chronograph said 2900FPS. I used his chrono on some other loads and it seemed accurate. The owner said he was getting expected readings and felt it was accurate. I did not do any research such as drop at different distances to know. I use wheel weights for alloy. The animal was a white tail spike buck and range was within 50 yards. My grandson aims mid body right behind front leg as do I. My grandson shot first and the deer ran maybe 10 yards and stopped.
I took my shot. In both instances the deer was broadside. After my shot the deer ran off never to be seen again. Not one drop of blood was found. Without the deer, I can only guess, but I don't believe either one of us missed.

2900 with cast 6mm is not a good probability hunting load on deer I would say.

Ok, I didn't read the thread, but do have experience with cast bullets in a 30-30. The one I got in 1967, and still have. Pre 64: $60; wasn't cheap. I also had a Lee Loader and loaded 3000 rounds for it. Since bullets were about $5 per hundred, which was a lot of money for a high school kid, I decided to cast my own. Got a Lyman round nose, forgot the number, but it is 180 grains or so. Also, the local gas station would give me wheel weights by the box full. And back then, wheel weights were good stuff; lots of antimony and tin, and lead; probably arsenic and cad too. But they made great bullets and would shoot through plow blades (old ones we didn't use). NO way would they expand; they either fragment or punch through.
So, if you want expansion, get some 1-10 alloy at the most; wheel weights won't work. You will have wounded deer because they will act like FMJs.

quote:

ou will have wounded deer because they will act like FMJs.

BS put a cast or FMJ into a deer's lungs/heart and you well have a dead deer.

Flat nosed cast kill very well in 30 caliber at speeds from 1500-2000 fps muzzle speeds. Usually two holes leaking.

Before you start casting, let me recommend you verify the bullet jump to the lands. In print gunwriters never mentioned this, but this is something that needs to be checked in before you spend a lot of time and effort in casting 30-30 bullets.

I own this early 90’s Marlin and I took the thing out to shoot cast bullets.

Slow but on paper


Faster, and much better if you toss out a few “flyers”



Obviously too fast



Here is a perfect example of limited sample size and optimism. I had not checked the throat jump, and did not until having fired over 500 rounds of 170 JSP with various powders, and then decided to find out how far I had to seat the bullet to get the nose on the lands. It turns out, Marlin reamed this chamber so that the OAL for a 170 grain bullet to touch the lands would be above 3.0 inches. The problem is, a round greater than 2.555 could not be ejected from the rifle, without removing the lever, and the bolt! That is, any bullet set to ejection distance would have a half an inch of air space to jump before touching the lands.

Decided to shoot up a bunch of those “good” cast bullet loads, and once the sample size got up, it was obvious that those “flyers” were not due to sight alignment and trigger pull errors.




Cast bullets were a lost cause, but with jacketed bullets, I did get the rifle to shoot acceptably well at 200 yards with N135, IMR 3031, and AA 4064





but don't let anyone fool you that the 30-30 in a lever action is a 300 yard cartridge. The bullets are probably floating at wiffle ball velocity at 300 yards, if not tumbling.

slam.
your problem isn't speed.
the problem you got is the bullet design.
put a 'case full' [34-36grs.] of 4831 behind the 041 and see what happens.

alternately get you a bullet designed for the Marlin [IE the ranch dog 165, sized to 311] and run your tests again.
I bet you see a whole different outcome.

I know I get about 5 to 50"s worth of different outcome in my 308 if I use the right bullet design, or the appropriate powder so I don't go F'N things up from the start.

I have shot enough deer with the old 30-30 win flat nose solid of yesterday, believe they were for seal hunting or so Im told. and PHil has seen them in 25-35..A deer can run a hell of along ways shot in the heart or lungs with any none expanding bullet and prone to loss for lack of blood, better have a good dog handy, but in most cases they are recovered hopefully..


I recall during WW2, dad had a contract with Ft. Bliss in El Paso to destroy or bury overages and we got lots of 30-06 solid full metal jacket and cut the nose to lead..Those bullets killed like a lightening Strick or you had a two to five mile tracking job in some mighty rough desert mountian country on Mt. Franklin to War Road 11 seperating NM and TExas where we ranched..

I decided long ago to nix lead and solid bullets, they are not for me, but to each his own if they work for you..but Iwill use them for
cape buffalo, hippo and elephant in big bores.

Ray...i grew up on a small dirt farm between canutillo and anthony and was all over those mountains. was also my duty post with the SO in the 70s.
BTW....like you said, to each his own, but i have personally tracked mulies on mountain ranges in the presidio tx and others that were shot thru the heart and lungs. we would usually see that the wounded deer would circle back to the place where hit then lay down and die. with hearts like shredded wheat. every one did that little "jump" then took off. some heart shot would collapse on the spot. whitail too where we live now. old game warden, george knight told me that if they had a lung full of air when hit they could run a ways. i dunno. but i do know what a saw a few times in person.