I see talk of someone on another forum wanting to build a 32acp carbine and to use cast bullets. He was asking questions as to what donor milsurp barrel to use such as a Mosin Nagant , 303 British, to a 7.65 Argentine. My thinking is one the normal twist is 1 in 16. The twists on the milsurps range from little over 1 in 9 to 1 in 10. So that's not a good match and that twist rate is too much. Another concern is most 32 acp's run a groove diameter of .309 to .310. Again looking at the groove diameter on the milsurps we know those mentioned run much much fatter then that. Another thing is that a fat bullet might not let a 32 acp cartridge chamber if loaded with a fat cast bullet such as .314 or even .312. This leads me to think that a 308 Winchester barrel would be more appropriate with it's 12 twist and tighter .308 groove. What do any of you think of the whole concept?

wheeler....how did you learn so little??

swheeler you're wrong about the 7.65 Argentines having an 11 twist. Now the French MAS 49/56 has an 11 twist and it's left hand too. Amazing how you learned so little.

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
I see talk of someone on another forum wanting to build a 32acp carbine and to use cast bullets. He was asking questions as to what donor milsurp barrel to use such as a Mosin Nagant , 303 British, to a 7.65 Argentine. My thinking is one the normal twist is 1 in 16. The twists on the milsurps range from little over 1 in 9 to 1 in 10. So that's not a good match and that twist rate is too much. Another concern is most 32 acp's run a groove diameter of .309 to .310. Again looking at the groove diameter on the milsurps we know those mentioned run much much fatter then that. Another thing is that a fat bullet might not let a 32 acp cartridge chamber if loaded with a fat cast bullet such as .314 or even .312. This leads me to think that a 308 Winchester barrel would be more appropriate with it's 12 twist and tighter .308 groove. What do any of you think of the whole concept?

What, pray tell, would be the purpose of building this glorified pop gun?

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
I see talk of someone on another forum wanting to build a 32acp carbine and to use cast bullets. He was asking questions as to what donor milsurp barrel to use such as a Mosin Nagant , 303 British, to a 7.65 Argentine. My thinking is one the normal twist is 1 in 16. The twists on the milsurps range from little over 1 in 9 to 1 in 10. So that's not a good match and that twist rate is too much. Another concern is most 32 acp's run a groove diameter of .309 to .310. Again looking at the groove diameter on the milsurps we know those mentioned run much much fatter then that. Another thing is that a fat bullet might not let a 32 acp cartridge chamber if loaded with a fat cast bullet such as .314 or even .312. This leads me to think that a 308 Winchester barrel would be more appropriate with it's 12 twist and tighter .308 groove. What do any of you think of the whole concept?

What, pray tell, would be the purpose of building this glorified pop gun?

Grizz

Well I don't think we need a purpose do we? It's the fun of it I imagine. That's the name of the game.

I haven't come up with a use for the 32 acp as yet, but it might be fun if there was a micro falling block action to work with.
Say a Ruger #1 about half size.

Jim

Jim,

It reminded me of a friend who wanted to build a 25 acp carbine and using cast to, as he said, shoot starlings. Just something to do. Currently he uses a 22 magnum and with today's prices you can load such a cast carbine round we're talking about fairly cheap.

One of these days I'm going to build bolt action using a .223/5.56 case opened up to 25 caliber, for cast bullets.
I built a 375 Whelen for cast bullets a few years ago.
I should define 'I built' I had the action barreled and I fitted the stock.
I'd still like to do a falling block, much reduced, for a cast bullet rifle.
Keep me posted on the 32.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
swheeler you're wrong about the 7.65 Argentines having an 11 twist. Now the French MAS 49/56 has an 11 twist and it's left hand too. Amazing how you learned so little.

SmokinJ aka(Starmetal, Old Joe,MaxPayne, Joe Blow, LittleJoe, on and on)
7.65 mauser has 1 turn in 280mm
7.5 french has 1 turn in 250mm
Divide those by 25.4 mm and you will get rifling twist in inches,1 in 11.02 for 7.65 mauser and 1 in 9.84" for the 7.5 French, it ain't that hard sonny! Same old Joe, just flappin' your jaws to make a breeze.

swheeler aka (alcoholic, drunk, who knows what else). You're wrong.

Joey; get a calculator if you can't figure it out longhand, it isn't that hard, even you should be able to get the correct answer with a calculator.
If you need some help ask the wife, I'm sure she can help you! Take your meds, relax and THINK about it a little, you'll get it sooner or later.

quote:

Originally posted by swheeler:
Joey; get a calculator if you can't figure it out longhand, it isn't that hard, even you should be able to get the correct answer with a calculator.
If you need some help ask the wife, I'm sure she can help you! Take your meds, relax and THINK about it a little, you'll get it sooner or later.

What else do you suck besides a booze bottle Scot?

Read this: - The barrels twist is 270mm.

- Adjustable gas valve is a complicated solution to a non existing problem, a properly machined chamber is good enough:
A batch of Mas 49-56 MSE have been through a modernisation process lately (Mas SA-TE), new barrels chambered in 7.62x51 Nato have replaced the original 7.5x54 barrels without any modification in the dimensions of the gas system, same diameter for the gas port, same recoil spring. The direct gas impingement system on the Mas 49-56 is very forgiving to pressure changes (had to work flawlessly from -25 to + 50° celsuis).


- The original barrel has a 27mm shoulder for a positive lock of the 22mm thread.
The barrel cropped for the 7.62x51 chamber has only a body of 24mm with the locking flat milled on :

#1 original barrel in 7.5x54, 27mm shoulder with centering ring for the handguard rear plate.
#2, 3 Shortened barrel rechambered in 7.62x51, from 24mm diameter and no centering ring for handguard.

Now read who it's from:

Kelt Senior Member Join Date
Dec 1969
Location
France
Posts
1,165

He's knows more then your dumb Montana drunk ass.

Further information for you dumbass:

Quote Originally Posted by gunsmith View Post
Well Gentlemen, I just remeasured my 3 rifles, and they are all 1 in 9,8 twist.This is the same as the internet says. 1 in 250 mm.( 9.84252)
This seem to be the european standard rifling twist for 30 cal rifles.( at least from what I have been able to ascertain.

1. The french had a different bolt on the 308 rifles, to match the rim diameter. (only sensible, as they can do this, they are a Government)
2. The rifles they made, had a different recoil spring,(heavier wire) than the .308 version. I have seen them, and miked one. The bolt was definitely harder to open than the 7,5 version. Nothing wrong with this, and the brass did not fly into next week, forward. It went out the side, and down like a perfect gentleman.
3. My gun has fired 1000 rounds (when ammo was cheap, not now) without a single jam. Almost lit up the forend wood. The oil was coming out in a greasy mess from the wood, and it became hard to hold on to it for the heat. But it sure ran. This was done at Bulletfest in Ohio. Campy Bob will verify this, as he was there and saw it.
4. I know the gun is accurate. I just shot a groundhog at 300 yard with one in 7.5. Hit it in the head.
5. I have never given miss information. Don't know her. I have tried to explain from the experiance I have with these rifles, How I got them to shoot, and what I found.
I would have loved to have seen the MSEs converted. I could have learned alot, as the MSE was and is a wonderful rifle, capable of wonderful accuracy. Nice trigger pull, refined action and stock, like a National Match m14 or M1 Garand.

Kelts reply:
Thank you.
You are very fortunate to own three Mas 49-56 rifles with a special barrel twist! the production runs of models 44, 49 & 49-56 rifles built by MAS in 7.5x54 have barrels with 4 groove and a 1 turn in 270mm twist.

kelt

Last edited by kelt; 07-20-2009 at 10:25 AM.

milli as in millimeter means 1/1000. a meter is 39.37 inches. So in 39.37 inches you have 1000 of those little millimeters. To find out how many to make one inch--you divide 1000 by 39.37 and you get as Scott says 25.4. So if you have millimeters divide by 25.4. In the case of 250 millimeters that would be 1/4 of a meter so you could divide 39.37 by 4.= 9.843 inches.

Yup, that's true Ray, but I'm not disputing Scot's math. Scot is just so positive that he know the exact twist of all the rifles. We have a Frenchman here who lives and breathes French rifles. I would listen to him before I would to some drunk from Montana especially someone from the CastBULLET forum.

Scot, do you really think that the 7.65x53 Argentine, whose original bullet weight was 14 grams, would have used an 11 twist?

I'm sorry Larry let you astray. Here's a page out of the Hornady Manual of 1967. Lyman says the same thing as do other. In fact I took the old cleaning rod out and measured two rifles. My 1891 Engineer Carbine and my Model 1909 and they indeed came out to the what the picture says. Maybe you got the two turned around when you said the Argentine was the tighter twist, but never the less you're wrong on French twist.
Must be the alcohol Scot, it destroys brain cells.

Those old manuals are full of errors. Get some one to help you use a tight patch and a cleaning rod to measure twist, as in have them do it and you watch, maybe you'll learn something. Now I've got a date with a bottle of 12 year old. So for now the lessons are over sonny. Just keep spouting your you are still a legend in your own mind!

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
milli as in millimeter means 1/1000. a meter is 39.37 inches. So in 39.37 inches you have 1000 of those little millimeters. To find out how many to make one inch--you divide 1000 by 39.37 and you get as Scott says 25.4. So if you have millimeters divide by 25.4. In the case of 250 millimeters that would be 1/4 of a meter so you could divide 39.37 by 4.= 9.843 inches.

Save your breath Ray, this moron doesn't have enough sense to pound sand in a rat hole! Ever since he read Heathydees technique for loading the swede, and copied it too a Tee, right down to powder type, buffer annd charge, then tried to pass it off as his own, well lets just say the bullshit has got worse. Larry has taught him a thing or two, BUT he has a long ways to go. Like I say, bullshit, every gun he owns shoots bug holes. What a nutcase! JUST ANOTHER TROLL!

quote:

Originally posted by swheeler:
Those old manuals are full of errors. Get some one to help you use a tight patch and a cleaning rod to measure twist, as in have them do it and you watch, maybe you'll learn something. Now I've got a date with a bottle of 12 year old. So for now the lessons are over sonny. Just keep spouting your you are still a legend in your own mind!

You're as dense and stupid as your friend because if you read my post I said this "In fact I took the old cleaning rod out and measured two rifles. My 1891 Engineer Carbine and my Model 1909 and they indeed came out to the what the picture says".

You're a has been and an old alcoholic. You're the one full of errors.

what a hoot..the serial liar currently known here as SmokinJ(aka StarMetal,MaxPayne,joe, old joe,et al, ad naus) a NEVER WAS,labeling someone else a has been...What's next,calling up your hole card,that source at Sierra Ballistics ?? Or yet another death threat..??

quote:

Originally posted by idabull:
what a hoot..the serial liar currently known here as SmokinJ(aka StarMetal,MaxPayne,joe, old joe,et al, ad naus) a NEVER WAS,labeling someone else a has been...What's next,calling up your hole card,that source at Sierra Ballistics ?? Or yet another death threat..??

That's the second death threat I've gotten from you old man. Maybe the moderators will catch it this time.

Isn't it amazing the CastBULLET forum breeds pieces of shit like you and swheeler.

quote:

"In fact I took the old cleaning rod out and measured two rifles. My 1891 Engineer Carbine and my Model 1909 and they indeed came out to the what the picture says".

Your nose is growing! Now I know why no pictures of you, "Tucan Joe", Hey didn't you make a FRUIT LOOPS commercial. Fruit Loops, how fitting!

Back to .32ACP rifles. There are a few knowledgeable sorts over on the Cast Bullet Association web site who are doing that very thing. Intent is to build a low noise, sub-sonic rifle/load combo for shooting rabbits and other such intruders out of gardens, hence what they call "Bunny Rifles." Why, for something to do I suppose. If it were me I would just go with a .32 Long, or reduced loads in a larger centerfire. It's just for s*its-and-grins.

ed harris in particular. at the cba.
if i were to do this i'd use a 30 carbine bbl.
fast twist= long bullets.
slower twists= shorter bullets.
but the faster twists will stabilize a shorter bullet just fine,
at slower velocities.
i use 313 sized boolit in my 30 carbine rifle and revolver at low velocities to duplicate light 32-20 loads.

Now you last two posters are talking. I agree with back to the thread and away from the two negative posters.

Lamar I know where there is a brand new unissued Carbine barrel for sale very cheap. I thought the same thing as you that it would be a very good choice.

Personally I would just use one of the available chamber inserts in an o6 or 308.

quote:

Originally posted by swheeler:
Personally I would just use one of the available chamber inserts in an o6 or 308.

Interesting...that's saying you agree with me that the 06 and 308 bore dimensions are better suited to this project. I didn't see mention of 7.65 Argie, 7.62 Rooskie, or 303 British chamber inserts mentioned.

Personally I think with lots of shooting chamber inserts are hard the firing pin.

quote:

Interesting...that's saying you agree with me

Not at all, I'm saying I'd go the caliber adapter route and it would be in one of the rifles I mention, because thats what I have.

What I don't get is why someone would go to all the trouble to chase an idea into reality and scrimp on components of the project along the way. Example: building a .32ACP rifle by doing all the research, hiring a gunsmith to fit a barrel (or go through the rigamarole yourself), alter the bolt/extractor/ejector, probably alter the forearm, fit sights, et., etc., ad nauseum-- and do this build around a surplus military barrel! If I were going through all of that I surely wouldn't want a compromised barrel skewing the results I hope to get.

Have a barrel made to properly handle the loads you're planning to use instead of rooting through a pile of used military barrels in varying degrees of wear hoping to find something that's close. "Close" isn't good enough for me if I'm spending a pile of money/time building a rifle to test theories with. A new barrel with the dimensions you are seeking is not very expensive in the whole scheme of things.