Shot 10 more of them this evening in waning light at 50 yards. Easily less than 1/2 minute of coka-cola can,... except for 2 flyers both 2 inches out from edge of group, 1 high right, 1 low left - probably nut behind the butt plate. Load was 12.5 Herco and Rem 9 1/2 primers. Bore looks like its just been cleaned!

Other load I've tried with these IBBs (itty bitty boolits) is 21.0 H116, which I noticed has gone up from $55 to 80 sumthing? at Powder Valley. Neither load is chrono'd but the 116 seems faster. Either is accurate at 50 to 1/2 MOBC (minute of beer can). This is fun.... sundog

Sundog, the H116 load has more powder than the Herco load, and both are double based powders, having close to the same energy per grain (assuming both have the same amount of nitroglycerin, say 10 percent). ... felix

Sundog, take it on up a little more, say 23 of H116, and if that still shoots good, go another 2. Compare with N120 for a velocity-accuracy check. Bounce back and forth a half grain of powder around the center, and the accuracy and velocity should stay fairly uniform for the bestest powder at that velocity. ... felix

Shot some last night with 23 and 25 H116. Getting dark so could not do much. Seems to be some promise in this load, so more testing required (need to get them across the chrono for sure). Price is right, though. I paid only $56 for mine (8# H116). sundog

Is 116 faster or slower than WC820, or is it just one particular lot of WC820 repackaged?
LouisB
Pat McD says that they will not be able to sell recovered powder in the future contracts.
Truth or scare? ?
I don't know, what do any of you know about this?

LouisB

H116 is most like WC680 and is quite a bit slower than WC820. H108 is most like WC820.

Did not realize Jeff and HiTech had that information also. I had just noticed it on McDonalds site and was hoping ( I guess) that it was not totally correct.
If I had just got the 4759 when Jeff had it this summer, I could have filled out the case with enough to last a LONG time what with "stock on hand".

If this will cost the government, and cause a loss of jobs maye our elected reps need to step in and MODIFY that ruling.
Just a thought.

LouisB

I wonder when the next contract is? BCB

Sundog, I have had very good accuracy with the Lee 113 grainer in the 30-30. I like to use this boolit for a real light small game or training load for the youngsters. I am using 8.5 grains of Green Dot for around 1400 fps. NO recoil, good accuracy, and enough power for rabbits. The more I use this powder the better I like it for reduced loads in large cases. It is the least position sensitive powder that I have ever tried for this application, and you don't have to mess around with fillers etc. I don't have a clue as to why Green Dot works better then all the other Alliant (formally Hercules) powders, but it does work. Felix, with your chemical knowledge about such things as powder mixing, perhaps you could enlighten us or try a few Green Dot experiments.

Best regards from duke.

That's a good copy on the Green Dot. Been using it for years in rifle cases. Also works very well in pissola - 45 ACP and GD is an all time favorite, but small doses don't meter well, so watch it. I think one reason it does well is bulk. That's one reason I started palying around with Herco - bulkier than Unique, albiet a little slower, which is also okay.

Shot a 7-round group last evening of soup cans and 24.0 H116. Same general POI as the Herco load, but very noticeable vertical stringing. First cold round very high. Bore very clean. Still more testing needed. sundog

Yes, Duke, I need to do some work with GD and PB. You know, I never had that speed in my arsenal, and it's about time. The fluffiest powders around are Herco and 700X, and I've used them extensively in big cases. Being two different speeds by a long shot, Herco likes compression/pressure, but 700X does not. Thus, besides the speed differences, their applications are completely different. PB is a single base version of GD, and that's why both should be experimented with as a pair. GD would have a slight edge in ignition and would give more power, but not as smoothly as PB. That's the prediction, anyway. ... felix

I remember liking PB in 12 ga when I used to shoot a fair amount of skeet years ago. I've got some on the shelf.

Felix, I can load and shoot a little PB abd GD at 50 with these bitty boolits and compare. What load do you think would work for a test? Around 8.0-9.0? sundog

Sounds like fun, Sundog! Go for it. ... felix

sundog,

I have used 8.5 grains of RED DOT (1513 fps) and 9.5 grains of UNIQUE (1640 fps) and the "soup can" bullet. These loads were fired in a Model '94 Winchester. Since GREEN DOT is inbetween these powders, it might give you some idea as to what velocity to expect. I have done fairly well with accuracy at 50 yards with these slugs, but accuracy ain't all that great at 100 yards. I am shooting them in 94's and Super 14" Contender. I sure would like to get M.O.A. at 100 yards with them in either weapon. I've also use SR-4759 and WC-844. Keep us informed as to your progress...BCB

Okay, maybe this evening I'll prep some turdy-turdy brass and load 9.0 of GD and PB and do a group comparison at 50 if I have time - maybe the grandkids would like to shoot (???? Someone say SHOOT??? yea, my ass. They'll shoot!). I got some mowing (reduce winter fire hazard) and other tractor work to do tomorrow, but I'll try to fit it in. sundog

Sundog, to keep those "chillins" in ammo, we can obtain 500 cases, and get a Dillon conversion plate. Gotta' find a load first, that works plus-minus a quarter to half grain either way. Dillon requirements. ... felix

Okay, forget the GD, unless y'all don't have any PB. This morning 6 shots into 1.375, 7 into 1.817. Horizontal stringing. This afternoon, very windy quartering coming at me but partially blocked by the tree line - tough to judge. 6 shots into 0.772, YEA! but 7 into 1.432. That one old maid was actually a neck split at the shoulder and didn't feel right either. Okay, one more 9 shot group, 6 into 1.133 and 9 into 2.487 - the wind got me. Did I mention that it was REALLY windy? I'm hooked. The load? 9.0 dumped of PB and unscaled soup cans. This'un's a keeper! All firing done a 50 yards with a '57 mdl 94. Filed skinny front sight, rear Lyman tang. Can we spell happy camper boys and girls? I'm thinkin' under 1/2 MPC (minute of pop can)! sundog

sundog,

I am curious�What do you think accuracy would be with a �scoped �94? My previous post indicated optical sights since I don�t shoot much open sights. I have a blind spot in my right eye and optical sights are my only answer anymore. I do shoot some open sights with a couple of handguns in 357 and 38 that I have, but the lack of accuracy shows. I guess I am just an M.O.A. compulsive that might have to accept less as age does the eyes no justice.

These �soup can� bullets have performed well at 50 yards for me, but accuracy deteriorates at greater distances. WC-844 has performed the best for me at 100 yards, yet it still isn�t an M.O.A. shooter. Any thoughts on this? I sure like this little slug and would like �beer can accuracy� at 100 yards, and to get that, it must stay at 1.5� or less at that distance�BCB

OK, we gotta' keeper at 9-PB. Now try 8-700X, 10-7625 to kinda' chissel down the proper cheap powder speed really desired by that soup can. ... felix

BCB, nothing with a scope to help, other than a 03A3 I'm getting ready to do a bedding job on this week. Sorry about the blind spot in your eye, I bet that's a real PIA to work around. I have some $#%^*^@ (don't premember the name but well documented with retinal pics on several ocassions) cupping that I will have to contend with in years to come. Not looking forward to it. If it hadn't been for the wind today, I think the groups would have been 'mo betta'.

Felix, 7625 on hand. Haven't used 700X in upteen years, but will try to borrow a sppoonful for testing. Just sumthang special 'bout da turdy-turdy! And, I really like these bitty boolits, too. sundog

btw, don't forget that Herco and H116 is also working for more fps. Tending to like Herco a little better at this point....

Sundog, if you liked Herco, then duplicate the load with 4756 and compare. 7625 is on the fast side of Unique in most situations, whereas 4756 is on the slow side of Unique, and in most cases is identical in speed to Herco. 700X will be too fast burning to get accurate boolit speed, but for medium speeds, it should be great. But perhaps not greater accuracy than PB because 700X has 25 percent or more nitroglycerin. BD should give you the best speed with accuracy without going on up to the rifle powders. Add 3 grains to your Herco load for a BD load. ... felix