I have found that my M-1910 Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 9.5x57 MS caliber requires long, heavy bullets in order for them to feed smoothly. About 270gr is the lightest (Hornady 270gr jacketed and Lyman 272gr 375167) that will work. I would like to try some lighter ones to see what higher velocity would do. I have tried 220gr and 235gr, but they hang up.

Nothing is wrong with the gun. The long bullet hits the radius at the front top of the magazine well and angles it upward for smooth feeding. The short bullets don't do this. The shoulder of the case hits the front of the rotary magazine and jams.

So I am thinking of using a bunch of zinc that I once thought was tin until I tried melting it. I still have some of it around. Ruined a bunch of lead and took a thorough cleaning of the pot to get it working again. I figure that the Lyman should give about a 170gr bullet made from zinc.

I need something that will heat the pot hotter than the lead-melting, bottom-pour pots do. I am thinking of a cast iron pot and using a couple of propane torches. That should be cheap enough and should get it hot enough to pour. However, the next problem is getting it into the Lyman mould. I am afraid that dipping it will cool it too much and clog there, too. Also, what I have read about zinc bullets, they always recommend opening up the pour hole in the sprue plate. I guess I can get a replacement sprue plate later on.

Any ideas on how to try this on the cheap/

I heard something about the Army once tested armor plate with zinc bullets. Anyone else hear anything of that?

starmetal...F.C ness in his book on Big Bores has some data and tests using zinc bullets.

Pretty interesting and they did do some tests on armor plate with them. Thicknesses were not much so the results didn't impress me.

Ness and his shooting cowhorts were using zinc bullets, unlubed with an IPCO grease wad at the base at jacketed velocities. Accuracy was from good to so-so.

As you guys pointed out, the weight factor really goes down with zinc....almost to 70% as well as I recall.

Inetersting reading though./beagle

I have a friend that makes his cannon projectiles from old carburators. These are some type of pot metal, maybe zinc. They cast smooth, but I have never watched him cast them, so don't know what heat is required. They are lighter than lead would be for the same size projectile, by far.

I was able to find a copy of that article and just got done reading it. There appear to be some problems to overcome. He says that the mould MUST cast to the guns groove diameter (or 0.001" SMALLER). It cannot be bigger than bore diameter without upping the pressure substantially. This is not surprising, since the yield point of zinc is very close to that of jacket material. He also says that sizing is not an option. The worked metal will soften and smear, ruining any possible accuracy (that assumes I won't break my lubrisizer first).

The mould I have is quite a bit oversized at 0.379" and the bore size is just under 0.376". Of course, that diameter is with a mixture of 1# monotype to 2# pure lead so zinc might be a little different. I really doubt that it would come out as little as 0.376" though. I will have to think on this a while.

Harry O, I remember a right up in G&A back in late 70s They were trying for real high fps in a .44 mag. They used zinc,It went right through all the wet telephone book they could find.This was at standard fps.So they tried to punch through a bullet proof vest.Went right through both sides.They kept folding in half and firing till they couldnt fold anymore.Right through.AISR it went through 8-10 layers of that vest.Bullet did not mushroom in any of the test.
As for casting the zinc,try a coleman stove and a cast pot.That should get hot enough.I bet a large dipper would hold enough heat to cast a few to try out.
Jim

Now if we could only cast a zinc boolit with a lead core.

Just remember, that any trace of zinc in your pot, ipper or mould can louse up future lead-alloy castings, preventing them from filling out properly. Further, I have read that any trace of lead will "poison" the zinc castings, and they will crumble after a few days or weeks. Better NOT use your regular casting setup, and you really should get an "el-cheapo" mould specifically for experimenting with zinc. Starmetal, does this jibe with what you know about zinc? It may just be one of those "old caster's" tales, but proceed with caution. floodgate

Hey guys,
Some thoughts for you on the zinc bullets. I just recently contaminated a batch of lead with zinc thinking it was tin. So I used a single burner propane unit (turkey fryer type like at GI-joes or Bi-mart or Wal-mart) 30K btu or so to heat my pot and melt the remaining suspect metal into identifiable ingots. To clean the pot I used the same burner with the pot turned upside down on the burner. Then I whacked the pot with a piece of steel and all of the junk came out of the pot after everything was heated up hot enough. I played around casting some of the metal - it does shrink in my molds compared to normal lead casting. The key I found was very hot metal to get a decent cast. This propane unit seemed to be the trick. My normal smelting electric pot couldn't get hot enough.
Hope this helps
Eric

I had several ingots of what I thought was tin several years ago. When I melted it, I found out that it wasn't. I threw most of it out. Tried to dilute the stuff clinging to the walls with pure lead. That didn't work. I ended up throwing that out and scraping the insides of the pot with files and woodlathe turning cutters until it was clean.

I had the pot turned up all the way and it wasn't hot enough for that mixture. I am thinking of getting one of the simple pots that are used for dipping. If I lose that, no big deal. The key is getting enough heat. I tried the top of a stove with the gas on high, also. Not good enough. I think a stove AND propane torches might do the trick.

You mention that zinc seems to shrink more than lead. I hope so. I will have to find out if it will shrink from 0.379" down to 0.375". Sounds like that is asking a whole lot, though.

BTW, I have some year or two old WW's that I cannot get to cast right. I have tried heating it with the pot controls turned all the way up. I have added tin. And then I have added pure lead. No luck. I am beginning to think that the WW's had a few zinc ones in the bucket. I read that all European cars now have to have zinc WW's instead of lead. I am sure that the tire places don't segregate WW's from American cars from those that come off of European cars. I think that using WW's will become a more risky business for us casters in the future.

I get my WW from a local tire outfit - and yes they do not separate out the zinc ones from the lead ones. I just sort them by color - simple sorting method I guess. Anyway - real bright ones go into the suspect bucket and the dull oxidized ones go into the "good" bucket. If you have no plans on casting with zinc - zinc contamination is a bugger to deal with in your normal casting equipment as I am sure you have already figured out!

Anyway - my method is separation. I take the "good" bucket and melt things down weight by weight pulling out the clips from the WWs. I use a small pot and when the pot is full I flux and clean then pour into ingots. I do it this way incase I missed a zinc WW and blow the hole pot - then I am only throwing out a couple of pounds of metal instead of 10 or more.

When it comes to the "suspect" bucket - garage sales and cheap pots work really good. Any old pot works as long as it can handle the heat - enameled pots or ones with no-stick coating are no good. If I melt a weight and the "thick" dross forms with a lot the pretty colors - I pitch it in my zinc pile and grab another pot.

With this method I haven't wasted much - I have about 10lbs of pure zinc in ingots and about 5 lbs of contaminated casting metal accumulated.

Hope this helps
Eric

I'll tell you guys something interesting about zinc. I use to work for USS Steel years ago and I worked in the galvanizing sheet metal department. They would heat the ribbon strip of steel in a furnace and then it was pulled through basically a little molten pool of zinc. Well I remember when the zinc was brought in, ingots of it on big wagons. Here's the interesting part. Along with the workers bringing the wagon of zinc in Where two armed guards with M1 carbines. I would have never imagined zinc, even in that amount, was that damn valuable. Apparently USS Steel thought it was. I bet with the zinc that we have that we wouldn't get enough money for it at the salvage yard to retire on. Just thought you fellows would like to hear this story.

Joe
P.S. there is a catwalk across that pool of molten zinc and one day a fellow was on it and it broke, he went up to his knees in molten zinc. They have his zinc plated safety boot in a glass display to view. He recovered fine thank God.