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Picture of Matt Norman
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Necessity is getting me in the mode to cast bullets. I've entered a stage in my shooting life where I'm going to be loading for 577/450, 56-50, 50-70, 43 Spanish.

Question is which sizer do you sage veterans recommend? And how do I figure out what top punch is needed? Lube recommendations?
 
Posts: 3300 | Location: Western Slope Colorado, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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I wouldn't even worry about sizing if the boolits are the right size. I find it best to lube by hand and run them through a larger Lee push through sizer to remove excess lube. Sadly it is hard to find just the size needed so I have made brass tubes with a hollow wood handle, sort of a cake cutter, to remove the excess. You want your boolits .001" to .002" over bore size anyway and more doesn't hurt.
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Bakerton, WV | Registered: 01 September 2003Reply With Quote
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If you are not shooting a high volumn, like 1000/month, Lee makes inexpensive sizing die sets that use your press. You can even custom order oddball sizes. They use Alox lube that you put on by hand but works fine & you don't need top punches. Sounds like you are shooting BP rounds so you may want to lube w/ SPG, then a conventional press type might be better. I like the straight thru designs by Magma (Star) or Saeco. You may be able to order custom nose punches from Saeco, I know Magma makes them.
http://www.magmaengr.com/item.php?id=24
http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/lubrisizer.html


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Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001Reply With Quote
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It is easy to take some emery paper and open up a lee die a caliber or two I did with a 410 to 416 works well.
 
Posts: 19835 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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You can tumble lube with any of the beeswax based lubes. Just heat your bullets to the point that they will melt the lube.

Buckshot over on the Cast Boolits board will make custom sizer dies pretty reasonably if the Lee won't do you.


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Posts: 1570 | Location: Base of the Blue Ridge | Registered: 04 November 2002Reply With Quote
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I own two SAECO sizer-lubricators and a Star by Magma. I think that each has its virtues, but the Star pushes by the base and does not need a nose punch.

Stilwell Tool and die will make any size die you want for any machine. Try www.sizingdie.com for that. However, I believe that Magma will make most sizes for the Star, too.

The advantage of the RCBS (and the similar but weaker Lyman) is the availability of a wide assortment of nose punches and die sizes. In addition, most custom mould makers will make a custom nose punch for these machines. RCBS has been known to make custom sizing dies for a price, too.

If you can cast closely enough with a custom mould, you do not need to size. The previously quoted 0.001-0.002" oversize was good advice. Sizing does no favors for most bullets.


Geo.
 
Posts: 305 | Location: Indian Territory | Registered: 21 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Unfortunately, many commercial moulds drop boolits the same size as corresponding jacketed bullets, i.e. too small for optimum accuracy. There are exceptions, but often you never learn until you actually start casting. For instance, I have a Lee .30cal 115gr soupcan mould that drops lino or WW alloy at .311-.312" Cool, and a 180RN that only goes to .308" Frowner. Lee is notorious for undersized moulds, but they are inexpensive and readily available, so many start out with them. Many more experienced casters prefer to avoid the gamble and spend the money for a custom mould big enough so that they can size down to optimum for their barrels.


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Posts: 224 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: 01 January 2006Reply With Quote
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I'm partial to the star sizer, no top-punch needed, and very fast opperation. They are expensive, but worth it if you're making alot of bullets.

As far as top punches, if you're using a sizer that requires one, then you'll have to look at the mold catalog for that manufacturer, and compare the top punch desings for various bullet designs. Then compare that to the shape of the bullets you're casting. Often times one top punch can be used for multiple mold designs, and even different calibers. Ie a 40 cal top punch may work just fine for 40, 41, 44 and 45.

I'd also say starting out with the lee sizers is sage advice. Even if you get a lube/sizer down the road, there will still be times when you'll pull out the lee for special occasions.


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The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time.
 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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It is easy to make a lee sizer for whatever size you want. Just bore it out from the next smaller size, push through a bullet you have rubbed some lube on, measure the diameter, and use emery cloth on a split stick or simular holder to enlarge and repeat until you have the size you desire.

I have done it a number of times, as well, and it works like a charm.
 
Posts: 11 | Registered: 17 August 2004Reply With Quote
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Excellent comments by all and I would only add that many of the BP cartridges and rifles were often chambered for and loaded with slightly undersize soft lead bullets, which relied on obturation to make the bullet fit the barrel. Some of the old BP rifles will not chamber a groove diameter bullet.

If that is the case with Matt's rifles, then he needs to take care that the bullet diameter is small enough to chamber reliably even in a fouled barrel.

Matt will have to determine the critical diameters either by trial and error or with a chamber cast. The two potential problem areas are 1) the bullet nose that sticks out of the case and 2) the OD of the neck on a loaded cartridge, which will be affected by the diameter of the bullet shank.

With modern guns we are usually prefer to err on the large side of diameter, but the opposite is true with some of the old BP guns.
 
Posts: 1095 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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I have never found it true to go undersize in BP guns. Accuracy suffers greatly. We are not shooting them in battle and can keep them clean between shots. As long as the round will chamber, larger boolits work better. To depend on the boolit expanding to fit when firing never results in top accuracy.
Even a .54 or .58 muzzle loader using Minnie balls will not shoot good unless the boolits fit the bore tight when loading. We don't have to load after firing hundreds of rounds with a bore full of fouling. During the Civil war, soldiers had to carry different size balls so they could keep loading when the gun was fouled out.
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Bakerton, WV | Registered: 01 September 2003Reply With Quote
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I have had several original Trapdoors in here that chambered and shot .461 boolits with extreme accuracy.
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Bakerton, WV | Registered: 01 September 2003Reply With Quote
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There is an oddity about the Lyman and RCBS lubricators. You can easily buy sizing dies that are VERY hard to get out of these machines. Both were made for sizing dies 0.510 or smaller. Other firms, like Buffalo ARms, will sell you larger sizes but getting them out is almost impossible. I'm sure about that.

The Star/Magma sizer can easily handle these larger diameters. This is a very nice machine.

Whatever you do, however, DO NOT buy a SAECO lubricator. That is the only product that SAECO makes that I would not recommend but that machine has serious problems.
 
Posts: 116 | Location: flagstaff, arizona | Registered: 09 April 2003Reply With Quote
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