Where do I sign up for one! Count me in.

regards,
Graycg

I want one..... cgraff@stx.rr.com

Post deleted by Oldfeller

Oldfeller (et al.) -



You posited a question about some of us being leaders here and there. As I observe it you, Felix, Sundog, Jump, Grumble, and now Aladin are real leaders in the cast boolet community.



It is oft said of publishing research for review of peers being the real test of quality. While this design will not be everything to everyone, it certainly will have it's place.



I wonder who the next leader will be - what design/caliber?



Thanks, one and all, for your input and particpation.

Post deleted by Oldfeller

Oldfeller writes.."You may want to consider making that front engagement band a long slow taper to just pick up the rifling out at the ogive start end of the first band and straight taper to go into a full bore wall interference at the back end of the band, near the first lube groove"

If this wasn't a Lee mold you'd see a couple different tapers. Truth is-- by the time they cut the tapers and fool with such I'd get a batch of say 7 or 8 different 'flavors'. Understand the leade taper on a 06 or 08 reamer is around 1.7 to 1.85 degrees per side. This means that surface linear run is around .15" which brings the throat gradually down to what the actual groove dia is. Seldom are you going to see a factory throat under 3090-- almost never in fact. Emphasize factory. What I want to accomplish is either forward contact with the rifling-- OR forward and firm contact with the throat wall. Either will guide the bullet in nice.... SO LONG AS IT'S LOADED STRAIGHT. This is a key factor in cast shooten! Your limited before ya fire a shot IF the thang ain't looking down the center.

I'd bet at least 50% of the 30 bores out there are at least 3085 for groove. And-- factory throat tend to be WIDE-- as in too much so. Hence the 3090 lead driver. Taper's a fine idea, but not practical from an execution standpt and really not needed for general shooten. My LBT and the 329 recut are loaded with the lands engraved to varying degrees-- and the targets are here for observation.

And...[always the words with me ] I've done alot of tapering of bullet drivers for testing these designs. It really doesn't wash on paper. In some applications yes-- for general 30 cal plinking not really.

Now ask for target design for a 30BR and I draw something ENTIRELY different. Glad to BTW...

Post deleted by Oldfeller

Maybe it is just me cause I am new to cast bullets but it seems the comments that are going back and forth are dealing with 2 different uses. One with the taper for cast, lube without sizing, then shoot and the other cast, size, and shoot. This reminds me of the saying that says if you're trying to do two things at once neither will turn out the way you want, or words to that affect. In either case from what I have read even shifting from WW to lino can change dimensions and weight and final results.

Either way I should have something in the safe that will shoot this critter and if not then I have another excuse to buy another gun.

Like I really need one

Snap fit bullets to fit Hornaday gas checks are hard. Impossible? Hornaday makes Lyman and RCBS gas checks to Hornaday specs. The Hornaday drawing shows 30 cal gas checks with ID of .287" +.000"/-.003". Clearly, some Hornaday gas checks might snap on some bullets, others won't. One can't hold Lee responsible for making a mold to make a bullet to meet a moving dimension on a gas check made by Hornaday. (GC height is .075"+/-.002"
joe b.

When it comes to alignment of the boolet, the fit of the neck to both the neck of the chamber and the size of the boolet are important as that is the other point of alignment on the bullet (other than the point of engagemetn in the throat).

Now we're talking about the axial alignment of the boolet to the axis of the bore. So the thickness of the neck of the case and the amount of clearance come into play here. Also the concentricity of the in and outsides of the neck of the case.

I think because of the different uses folks will have we'll have some room for other designs when this one is done.

joeb33050 writes..."One can't hold Lee responsible for making a mold to make a bullet to meet a moving dimension on a gas check made by Hornaday"

Your saying it right Joe. I've seen checks otta Hornady for 30 cal with a WIDE range of dimensions for fit and length. Of late though the dimensions you posted are quite accurate from what I'm seeing. Oldfeller is calling attention to a key factor in ordering though--- making darn sure the tolerances are kept close enough to utilize normal runs of checks-- and all other tolerances to be sure.

I went with .284 on the check shank with no taper. Why? Making sure checks would bottom out BEFORE starting to crimp. This is danged important... getting them mounted square. The dia's that work for me measure .284

Your comments per .284 shank dia are welcomed one and all!

Aladin, I sent you a PM trying to get in on this mold deal. No response yet, and I'm wondering if I screwed it up. Please either E-mail, PM or post letting me know one way or the other. Thanks. S/F...Ken M

Mike you are DOWN for one. Methinks I e'd ya but will check it out with one to ya.

Thanks for checking in!

Speaking of which-- my OUT box dumped some inquiry e's. Shooter375 didn't get back to me.... some others.

We'll give a loud holler before going to 'maker and that'll be some time yet.

Jay

Thank you kindly. S/F...Ken M

Post deleted by Oldfeller

I'm confused. Who's running this project?

At first, I thought it was aladin, but now I see that he's supposed to be taking directions from OF?

aladin, if this actually is your project, I want a mold. If it is going to be done by someone else with no accountability for it, then count me out.

'T'were it me, I'd appreciate constructive or helpful comments, but I'd get kind of irritated by sarcastic and snotty remarks. But, that's just me.

You're right Grumble, it could be taken as "being snotty". Since I didn't want that, I'll go fix it.



Aladin now has all the bits and pieces -- it is up to him to handle the thing any way he wants. Sitting down at lunch is a perfectly good way (lots of stuff does get done that way).



But you are 100% right, it is his baby.



Oldfeller

Thanks. Since that's settled, how is it that YOU're guaranteeing the molds will be produced and that there are plans for subsequent designs and variations? Does aladin work for you? Is he doing these things at your direction? You sure make it sound that way.

The phrase "too many cooks..." comes to mind.

In light of that, the process is simple, Y'ALL keep raising the questions, Aladin is the maker of the decisions, I'm the drafter. (And we ALL are those that raise questions of design.)

There is NO heartburn regarding any of the questions asked. On the contrary, it behooves us to have the questions raised in the design stage rather than after the fact.

It is with amazement and gratitude that I watch the process of participation in this project. It is most unusual to see first hand - being the beneficiary of the thought from a dozen or so perspectives.

So, MOST of the design is done; but there are numerous little tweeks that are being added as your comments are coming in.

Part of my confidence in the potential of success is the testing that Aladin has done with similar designs in one-of-a-kind modified moulds.

Keep the questions coming! OF - thanks for the summaries, many of the points we've already cranked in, some we have a little difference in philosophy.

My shooten guns are off the rack like the most here. This design isn't going to be universal-- no cast bullet is. A spitzer is simplicity itself.... as I said before your married to the 'hood'/ogive nose for BC and enough bearing surface length to make some speed @ 2 calibers [.62" in this design]... the rest a short leade angle and shank. Trick is to use a proven ogive which we have.

-- the 312 rear driver is for good tight luber'n. Most will squeeze it to 310 or so which makes the middle one same

-- the 311 and 312's will make some speed possible with high CUP. I'll be shooten for 24-2500 fps.

-- the lube grooves... hey methinks their cool. Their proven already on LBT designs.

Hey I'm just type'n up the facts which are very easy to grasp. No rocket science... nothing complicated a-tall...load the thing to touch up front and do your best to make sure it's loaded straight...the guys can hanlde this. The prototype grouped well to 1800 fps with only AIR COOLED ww alloy albeit aged. Give it a mild heat treatment and you could skip the aging up.

This not-for-profit run is for all you guys. Dern nice group to say the least. Just for the FUN!!! of it-- nothing else.

Lets all sit back and enjoy!! I am.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-1/82347/C210HBC-TRK_A.jpg



A 3d rendering thus far.



Changed to a more acceptable color 17 Dec 03.

I think oldfellller is wrong. I'm not measuring gas checks, I'm looking at the Hornaday drawing. I've got the drawing! If you looked at the drawing, you'd see that tapered gas check shanks aren't needed. Straight and small-enough gas check shanks work great! At least in Florida. If anybody wants the drawing, I'm joeb33050@yahoo.com.
Don't make it harder than it is, oldf-complexity and confusion and the use of lots of words don't make it right.
joe b.
"The fact that men will die for a cause does not mean that that cause is right."