I brought this up as a new subject so I could keep track. This is the .177 mold we're talking about. If you want the 22, email me and I'll keep a separate list.



I've volunteered to be middleman for the .177 viper pellet mold. We need 25 orders before they'll consider making the mold for us. I will give Midway and Lee a call on Monday to get pricing and procedures. Best case would be I'll give them the order for twenty five molds and they will ship. Worst case will be they will accept the money and ship the molds to me. Then I will ship them off to the buyers. If this happens I will have to charge a minimal handling fee to go to the "April Fools Root's Roost Cast Bullet Shoot" Oldfeller and I have been talking about.



If interested please email me at rootdr101(at)cs(dot)com.

I'll give you an actual snail mail address and full particulars. No checks will be cashed until the order is accepted. Don't send anything until we have the numbers needed to complete the order.



Grumble, Oldfeller suggested I talk to you about current pricing. Please give me a shout.



Mike

Count me in for one, do you want me to email this to you too?

Mark

Mike I sent you a email for both.
Thanks for your time.
Don

[ 09-27-2003, 05:55: Message edited by: OLPDon ]

Mark,

Please email me your information so I can keep a running tally. five down. twenty to go.

Mike

Fellas,

I've got seven orders so far. I need eighteen more.

Mike

Back to the top. Eleven down fourteen to go.

Mike

Back to the top.

We're over half way there. I've emailed some others who have expressed interest. If you want one please send me an email so I can add you to the list.

Mike aka Maxthompson.

[ 10-04-2003, 16:33: Message edited by: maxthompson ]

Max,

What is the current total? Just wondering so we can get these guys made!

Mark,

We presently have fifteen orders with me taking two without a real pellet rifle. I'll be talking to LEE tomorrow to try to get real pricing. Does anyone want a second. It may be cheaper to buy two than to pay the extra hundred split ten ways.

Mike

Guys, how much is the mould, so i can say for sure if i want one or not. If it's not too much i'll get one; i guess i might fool around with it this winter. I'll say definite when you let me know.

Plinker

Plinker, These molds will be in the twenty and under range. It all depends on how many we get.

Mike

Fellas,

I finally got a hold of Pat at Lee precision. With my FFl our price per mold will be $13.39. Since we now have only fifteen firm orders from ten people I have two ways to get it done. I can Charge $10 per person to cover the $100 setup fee, plus $13.39 for each mold plus $5 shipping from me to you. This would put a single mold purchase at $28.39 delivered to your door. If everyone would order one more mold the price for two would be $35. Please let me know what you think we should do.

Mike

$100 mold charge /15 molds = $6.67

1 vote for "Agree to pay the mold charge" and go ahead and put out a cost that includes it.

If we actually get more people, you can keep the extra dollars to support the Root's Roost spring shoot.

Where do we send the checks? I'd start counting and reporting on the number of checks that actually arrive, not on "intend to buy" at this point in the process.

Oldfeller

[ 10-07-2003, 20:52: Message edited by: Oldfeller ]

Oldfeller,

I divided the $100 by the ten people who have ordered molds in a hope I could get a few more to order multiples. Ten people $10 each plus the price of the molds plus postage.

I'm still waiting for more feedback.

Mike

Okay, i'm gonna order one just to help the cause. And kind of just to have it. But when you're ready, if it is a long time from now, post it on the airgun forum, where to send the money, because i might not see it here. But i'll keep checking this for a couple days. I guess you have to wait one everyone.

Plinker603

Penny,

When Mike finally declares a FIRM price then we will be going to the airboards to get some more folks interested. (this way we can create a few more fund-raiser dollars for the spring shoot).

If you are on any airboard you will hear all about the special extra deadly .177 viper deer killing airgun pellet (pellet gunners are already very used to doing head shots on bunny rabbits at 50 yards, no? Well, a deer's soft spot (right behind his eyes) at 75 yards is about the same size target.

I got me some big longlegged Wabbits in my back yard ...

This is really not new, we have had people killing headshot domestic goats with Beeman Kodiak magnums now using the 1250 fps supermagnum airguns, so the .177 Viper can certainly outperform that little lightweight pellet out of the same guns.

I'm curious if it can make it all the way through a ciderblock wall (aimed at the thin spots, of course). A regular pellet out of my Gamo can go half way there already (through the first side).

What was that price again? Sounds like another "you'd better snap one up before it gets illegal" to me.

It will be a flat-out footrace between getting 25 orders and getting the pellet outlawed as "uncivilized" and "too dangerous". Once that stuff starts, the rush to get it ordered will begin.

We'll have the 25 people and the order placed and shipped before Sundog and Felix ever melt the frost off that big old smelting pot of theirs.

Oldfeller

Max,

How about I say I'll buy the 25th mould. So put me down for two, but only if we get 24 moulds first. I'd just as soon we wait another couple of weeks, I bet when it gets cold and cabin fever sets in we'll get the rest of the orders in.

I'm in for one. S/F...Ken M

Ken,

Send Max an email saying you want one, he is keeping track that way.

Maybe I should change my sig to "a fool and my money are soon partners"......

I emailed Max T for one mold. Please change it to two. My son wants to try one of these "air gun Magnums" on east coast cat sized animals.

Ed Barrett
AKA elbStJoeMO

Oldfeller,

This is to shoot deer with? I'd have to get a new gun in .177 before i could use it. Someone said it was for "cat size" animals. What kind of cat are we talking about????

Well, i sent my name in, anyway.

Plinker603

Fellas,

Upon the advise of my betters/elders, I've decided to bite the boolit and put in my order to Lee for all twenty five .177 Viper boolit er peellet molds. My kitchen/computer room is now in chaos because the wife is painting the cabinets. I'll post tomorrow with a final price and get things moving.

mike aka maxthompson

Penny,

I take it your deer question is serious, so I'll try to give it a go.

A deer's skull is quite thin in some places. Specifically in the area directly back behind the eye socket on both does and bucks.

You can view a deer skull by typing the word into your browser (or looking here).

http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~wjh101/hedbone/Fallow/fallow.htm

http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~wjh101/hedbone/Axis/axis.htm

http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~wjh101/hedbone/Red/red.htm

Note on all female species examples that the skull thins out radically back behind the eye sockets (this thin area is right over the brain cavity itself). Remember to always aim above the jaw bone itself if you are aiming back behind the bony eye socket ridge.

Bucks are a tougher shot, aiming for behind the antler ridge on a buck is a much tougher shot as the brain is partially protected by the antler support structure. The brain appears to be a much smaller available target on a buck. The jaw bone and muscles are still back there, so you would have aim above them to avoid the jawbone itself and that puts you close to the antler support region. You still have to go through all the jaw muscles too. Bucks are tough targets, very well protected by both antler and jaw bone.

How big is that target zone on a doe? Less than an inch and a half. However, please remember air gunners have been popping bunny rabbits in the head for years at similar distances, so this is not a completely un-doable thing accuracy-wise.

It really all depends on the head angle you are presented with. Just remember on a buck the exposed area of the brain is smaller, the head is "harder" and the brain location is BEHIND and below the antlers (still in line with the eye socket). Bucks would be really tough, lots of muscle and jawbone and antler protect their brain case pretty well.

To avoid having your .177 Viper pellet slowed down by going through all the jaw muscles, a angled shot back through the softer ocular tissues back into the brain case might be a more effective effective shot placement on a buck. The ocular tissue density is much less and the skull is quite thin behind it (complete with a thinned out skull area for the optic nerve).

On a buck this might be your easiest, most effective air-gun head shot. Actually, unless you get a shot at a buck with the top of his head down grazing it may be your only realistic shot. This means much shorter practical shooting distances, say less than 75 yards?

If you can't place your shots on a quarter reliably at the range you are going to be shooting at and you are not certain of a nice steady rest (and your nerve) please don't try to do this deer trick. I personally couldn't really pull this off nerve-wise, I don't think.

Ugh (shiver) just thinking about shooting a sweet brown-eyed Bambi boy back through his eyeball at a slant angle like that. Cold, very cold.

I expect only a few people would have the raw nerve needed to brain-shoot a deer with a 1,250 fps adult air rifle (and those few would certainly be called "unsportsmanlike" or worse for having done so). In my state it would certainly be illegal anyway as .177 would be sub-caliber for deer hunting.

Still, the discussion over it would help move the remaining 10 molds as a deer's skull isn't as tough as a cinder block by any means.

Now, about your cat question. Either Carpetman or the boys on the Small Game board can fill you in on that one. I really don't think they are talking about mountain lions or tigers and such.

(better hurry up with that order guys, it will be illegal/immoral real quick now. The wimmen are on to us already)

<g>

Oldfeller

[ 10-10-2003, 17:54: Message edited by: Oldfeller ]

I promised a price on the molds but I'm waiting on LEE to give me a quote on shipping to me. I've got everything else figured out but with no margin I don't want to guess on anything. It looks like it will be right around twenty bucks each pending notification from Lee.

Mike aka Maxthompson

Mike,

Shipping was covered for free before if done in ONE (1) box from LEE to you (the shipping was covered in the quoted cost they gave you). They would also give you free cardboard sleeves to wrap around the red & white boxes if you asked them for them as part of your final purchase arrangements.

Remember to remind them to size everything using wheel weight metal and let's go ahead and declare a cost and start collecting some checks.

How much and where do you want them sent to?

Oldfeller

Fellas,

I'm finally ready to send in the order for the Viper .177 mold. Final price will be $21.50 deliverd. Please remember that you are buying this mold from Lee. I'm just facilitating the order. I'll keep you all posted as I get more info.

For all those who have requested molds I believe you should have my mailing address.

If not send me an email or PM and I will forward.

Mike

Attaboy, Mike!

Ya done good!

Mike,
If I change my order to (2) moulds would the shipping cost be Xs 2 or would the shipping be same as one order shipping if its the same I will take 2 moulds just to help you along. Give me bottom line and the check will be in the mail. Don

C'mon, Don! Do you really care if the final price for two molds is $44 or only $40? Is that really a big deal for a custom, one-of-a-kind design? If that's the difference between you ordering one or two molds, send me your snail mail, and I'll cover half the difference ($2.00).

grumble

Count one in the mail.

Oldfeller

Mike:
I am writing a check in the amount of $43.00 for (2) Moulds, check will be in the U.S. Snail Mail in the morning. As my math see this to be the price. I guess grumble's math is not as good as his shooting . Anyway what's a point here or there! At any rate job well done Mike, Thanks to you and all involved in this new venture. Don

Whew! I was really sweating out having to send you that two bucks, Don! <GGG>

For the record, I'll have you know that my math and my shooting are about the same quality. <G>

FWIW, my earlier comment was intended as a nudge, not as a caustic remark. If it came across too harshly, it was my poor wording, not my intent.

My "check is in the mail" as the saying goes. For 2 molds $43.00. Thanks Mike for all the work you are doing for all of us. I'll soon have molds from .17 to .58 I guess I'll have to buy a small cannon next, It will be awfully hard to hide from my wife. <G>

ED B
AKA elbStJoeMO

Ken and Penny,

Ken and Penny,

Your checks are in. I plan to post a cutoff of November first so no one misses out. I have tentative orders for more than the twenty five but If you want one please let me know.

Mike

How many cavities will this mold be set up to cast?
Weight of the pellet?
Will my chinwerkbau handle the heavier pellet?
Just cast in pure lead?

LouisB

Full of nosey questions ain't I?

Grumble:
No offence taken I enjoy seeing your posts of wit and all the past posts from all us casters on "what was that other web site?" great bunch of people, couldn't ask for better friends.
Don

[ 10-19-2003, 21:52: Message edited by: OLPDon ]