Have loaded lots of other calibers but continually have problem loading 44/40 without crushing cases with cast bullets. What is the secret to this problem??? Have used various dies including Lee's new seating die. Could undersized bullets be the cure????

You don't mention this so...

I think what you are not doing is chamfering the case mouth, i.e. cutting a bevel on it with a tool designed for that purpose (which also will deburr from trimming) or perhaps you are not expanding the case mouth. If the die set is not adjusted correctly you will have this problem. You should be able to just partially "seat" a bullet 1/16" or slightly less by hand before placing in the seating die. Your die instructions should cover this. Some people find that the Lyman "M" die does a better job of preparing their cases for the seating of cast bullets.

If you do this, your bullets would have to be greatly oversized to crush cases during seating.

Thanks for the reply Hobbie but I am already deburring the cases and expanding them enough so the bullet will sit on top ready for seating. I will try and find a Lyman M die as you suggested. Lyman is not really popular except for the loading manual around here. Green, red and blue are the colors of choice, not orange. I might have to just order one in. Thanks for the suggestion. Didn't mention deburring and flaring as I do it on as a routine habit. Best regards

I use the Lyman M die. I got the expander for the 44 Mag/Special and replaced the one on my 44-40 set with that.
Additionaly, most of my case crushing when I started out with the 44-40 was during the crimping. I now just seat the bullet to length and then run the cartridge through a Lee Factory Crimp Die. I haven't crushed a case since.

Willy

You gotta flare those cases a bit. I've run into several Lee expanders that just did not have enough flare to them.

I keep a pulled .50 BMG bullet on the bench for this. Put the bullet in the case mouth and tap with a hammer handle. A few tries will give you the feel for how hard to hit so the bullet just fits in the case mouth.

Lacking a .50 BMG bullet virtually any tapered steel object will work. If you have a drill press handy, just chuck a piece of scrap 1/2 rod or a cut off bolt in it and use a file to taper the unthreaded end.

M dies are nice and give a little more uniform results, but they ain't really necessary.

Those cast bullets could also be the problem. .44-40 dies are made to size the case to hold .427 diameter bullets. If your die and expander are leaving the cases a bit tight for .427 bullets and you are using .430-431 bullets, that could easily cause your problem. Cure for that is to try swapping in the expander from a .44 Mag or Special die set.

[ 05-30-2003, 17:43: Message edited by: Leftoverdj ]

.44-40 brass is just plain thin and weak. The problem has existed since it's inception, and we are stuck with that. Seating the bullet slowly helps, but this cartridge has always been one of the largest pains' in the ass of any I have loaded over the years. I hope someone comes up with a good answer on your post.

What do you consider undersized bullets?

My S&W has a .426" bore and I use cast bullets ranging from .427" to .430" with no problems. I also suggest the "M" die. I don't actually use one in this caliber but many years ago modified my rcbs expander to accomplish the same. I reduced the size of the expander plug so that most of it is .426" and then has a small flare to .430". Same idea.

The brass is indeed thin and also gave me fits at first. One of the best things you can do is get the Lee Factory Crimp die. Until I did I had problems with bullets jumping the crimp and tying up the cylinder. You could also very easily push the bullet further into the case with a finger. I would hate to have been loading for a lever gun.

You didn't say what dia. you are sizing to, but if your dies are .427 & your bullet is sized for a 44sp/mag @ .429/.430, with the thin brass, you are likely to crush it.
I used to load .44-40 a bunch for use in CAS w/ a Henry rifle. As others have said, you need to seat & crimp in separate steps. I sized bullets to .427 & had my expanding stem turned to .426 & used a mild roll crimp to get good bullet pull to resist the bullet sliding into the case while feeding in a lever gun.
That was then, now I load .45colts instead, it's just easier.