Where's the thread pertaining to these rounds? I'd like to educate myself; it sounds interesting.

PLEASE NOTE: This entire thread has been edited to change all references and all supporting data to the 1.000" inch bullet length and 360 grain weight so as not to confuse the bejesus out of the new readers to the thread (we started out talking about a longer bullet that was too heavy & long for the existing 38 twist-rate barrels).



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I've been following the discussions on the "harumph" rounds based on the Rineland Arms Mauser barrels very closely. As the discussions went on, several things became apparent. First, a .45 acp case really isn't very flexible -- it is simply too small for any practical use beyond the harumph round itself.



That's all you can ever do with it. Plus, the Rineland Arms stuff stacks up by the bits and pieces to be pretty costly and it ties up one of your mauser rifles 100% totally in its actual implementation.



I can't really stand the thought of dedicating an entire gun to a tough feeding "conceptual" round with no recourse to any practical hunting uses at all. Sorry, I'm not that wealthy.



Second, everybody has got tied all up in "the current legalities" on bleeding off the gas pressure behind the slug using a up-barrel port before allowing the slug to exit the barrel proper. I was disgusted at the current law's absurd wording as all existing autoloaders already do this up-barrel gas bleed trick, perfectly legally. This new restrictive BATF wording really really sucks ...... and I don't give up that easily anyway.



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NOTE: please check the twist rate of your .44 carbine -- it must be faster than a 30 twist for this sub-sonic stuff to work properly for you.

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What was needed to get past all this stuff was a existing round that already had these things in place and completely NATURAL to their pre-existing already-built gun base.



Once that thought had occurred, the solution was obvious. The .44 Magnum already HAS all these things available to it, including bullets with the huge .300 flat meplat size (which is as big as any commercial .458" slug carries, BTW). Load it way down deep in the case for a harump, run it on out to maximum OAL for normal hunting.



Plus, a harumph round in a .44 magnum revolver would gas bleed itself off at the cylinder gap, achieving "harumph" in the pistol format as well. And there are lots of cute little .44 mountain guns out there -- really cute little mountain guns with very nice triggers and clear sights. Not to mention all those big hunting revolvers that are out there in our gun safes.



The .44 carbines that are out there WILL NOT cycle their autoloader actions off a harump round, the gas piston simply pushes forward until it hits its "venting" position and all the small amount of remaining gas pressure vents out before the action will even begin to cycle against its return spring pressure. You lose ALL your miniscule remaining gas pulse (vented out quietly inside the stock) before anything can can happen. Rats. Sorry about that, it just happens. <gggg>



Durn, this means you'll have to pull the loading hook back each time when legally shooting your harumph rounds. Drop in a normally loaded round and everything instantly goes back to working normally. Now, that's what I call a quick change-over !!



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NOTE: please check the twist rate of your .44 carbine -- it must be faster than a 30 twist for this sub-sonic stuff to work properly for you.

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You aren't going to go into a Midsouth catalog and order yourself a 360 grain .44 bullet mold. They don't exist. And if one did, would these ideas actually pan out? Can you even stuff a bullet deep enough into a .44 Magnum case to make a proper harumph round? Would the case wall interefence stop you cold 2/3 down the case?



I have a mold coming, a protoype mold, an investigative mold. Conceptually it looks about like a LEE 310 grain gas check, but 1.000" long with an extended (straight cut) gas check shank making up the difference in length. Lube will be carried in the very thin band front of the gas check only, rest of the bullet can be dry (to cut down on overlube & to keep all the messy lube inside the case).



If the wall taper in the .44 mag case causes fatal interference on deep deep loading, I will leave off the gas check and run my pressure sealing off the extended dense hard wax check which will conform to the case wall thickness on the deep loadings.



I can make this sucker work (I think).



In any case, I already have the guns, I just need the 360 grain gas check .44 bullet with the long straight gas check shank. My total outlay will be quite a bit less than a RineLand kit.



Anybody interested in getting a prototype 360 grain .44 mold? They will cost about $33 for a single cavity LEE rifle proto-type mold as there are not going to be 25 people buying them I do not think. Send me an "interest" e-mail to Oldfeller123@aol.com and I will start keeping a list for the $33 prototype molds.



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NOTE: please check the twist rate of your .44 carbine -- it must be faster than a 30 twist for this sub-sonic stuff to work properly for you.

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My order is already placed, so the timeline for "getting in or not" is only a few weeks.



(order was adjusted 2/9/04 to 360 grains (approx) at 1.000" bullet length with the existing 310 grain LEE gas check shank length basically tripling in length)



Oldfeller