I traded for a new Marlin LeverEvolution Stainless in 45-70 with a 24 inch barrel and have been thinking about loading some cast bullets to practice with.

What type of cast bullets do you recommend and powder charge should I try? I am considering buying a bullet mould to make my own but am open for suggestions on hard cast also.

BTW do you know what do the cowboy shooters use?

Veral made me a 350gr. LFN GC mould which is very accurate out of my 1895.

So far the powders that show the best results are IMR 4198 and IMR 3031.

I've only been shooting at 50 yds so far and groups are under an inch and several are large clover leafs.

I've found 46gr. of IMR 4198 and 53gr. of 3031 to be the most accurate.

With target shooting right now, and heat treating the bullets the way Veral instructs in his manual, I figure the bullets are traveling around 200fps faster than the 350gr. jacketed, which would put them close to 2000fps, without a lot of recoil.

I will be chronographing these loads this coming weekend, if the weather permits.

HL

Thanks veral, for an excellent mould.

There are quite few off the shelf moulds that work well in the Marlin too. My favorite is RCBS 45-405 FN GC.

Powders like 4198, RL-7 & 3031 work well in the 45/70. Its an easy cartridge to load and produce accurate loads with.

Try to get hold of a recent article in Handloader (Aug-Sep 2007 issue). It has comprehensive coverage of loading the 1895 Marlin. It is referred to in the levergun section of this forum.

Joe

I saw the article the gentleman had on the lever gun section, but I have not been able to find the August addition of that magazine.

It looks like a very good article with a multitude of choices for loads.

HL

Marlins typically like fat cast bullets, .459 or .460. GC bullets will shot accurately at much higher velocities, but plain base do fine at black powder velocities. The .45-70 plain base bullets should be no harder than air cooled wheel weight alloy.

The Lee 459-405-HB does very well in most rifles. The mould is inexpensive and the bullets may be shot without sizing in most rifles. A very good load for CAS, plinking, and even woods deer hunting is 12 grains of Unique. That's nearly 600 shots to the pound.

Also good are 27 grains of 5744 and 31 grains of H 4198. Those are still mild loads, but plenty for most hunting for which the .45-70 is suitable.

Lyman 457122 or the Gould hollowpoint is a great one for the marlin lever. Mine casts about 340gr and I use aa2230c(same as 2460 to the tune of 45gr for 1500fps, Gentle and accurate.

When using the small charges of unique, do you need some type of filler? Seems like that leaves a whole lot of nothing in the case. I have been using around 45g of 3031 under 405g Cast. Not getting particularly good groups. I was thinking of speeding them up a bit.. or trying a different powder. Shooting them out of a Handirifle.

Even though IMR 4198 shoots best out of my gun. I also ran through several loads of IMR 3031. Accuracy was almost as good as with 4198.

In testing my loads with the 350gr GC bullet, I found 53.5 grains of 3031 to hold 1-1/2" groups at 100yds.

The RCBS twins, 300 and 405gr, are just perfect for Marlin 1895s. Super accurate, and feed well through the magazine. As for powder, anything goes depending on what you want for muzzle velocity. My favorites are 1000 fps = Unique. 1400 fps = 5744. 1800 fps = 4895 or 4064. 2000 fps=RE7. That's a nice thing about the 1895, it'll burn appropriate quantities of pretty much any powder you might have and give good performance. I even shoot a lot of WC860 in it, duplex loaded to equal black powder speeds. (duplex loading smokeless isn't something I recommend to less than very experienced reloaders though.)

Is it for hunting or plinking? For hunting I'd go with a 400 gr LFN style bullet at ~2000 fps, RL-7 is a great powder.

For plinking I'd stick with the lighter bullets 300-350 gr.

Way back when Handloader was still carved into slabs of stone, there was a three part article on the 45-70.
I got hooked on using IMR 4064 with 400 grain and up cast bullets. The case was full to the point of compression.
I found the recoil in these heavy loads to be less then the same (???????) velocity using IMR 3031.
Jim

arky,

I'm stuck on 4895 and a 420 cast bullet.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Is it for hunting or plinking? For hunting I'd go with a 400 gr LFN style bullet at ~2000 fps, RL-7 is a great powder.

For plinking I'd stick with the lighter bullets 300-350 gr.

I plan on using the 45-70 on Deer and Pigs at 100 yards +. I bought a RCBS 300gr Flat Nose Gas Check bullet mold in .459 I am also looking for a 350gr & 400gr mold with a Gas Check. Any suggestions to powder and a good FPS will be appreicated.

Thanks

There are many good options.

GAS CHECK:

RCBS 458-405 gr gas check
SAECO 458-350 gr gas check
Ranch dog mould (see below)

PLAIN BASE (if you don't have a sizer):

Lee 458/405 grain hollow base (for ~ <1400 fps)
RCBS 458-325 gr
Lyman 458/~420 grain plain base (mould #457193 ?)
Lyman 457122 /330gr HP "Gould bullet"

Go to castboolits.com and check our some of their suggestions. "Ranchdog" ) a member) has a mold design for sale on the site. It has received good reviews.
http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/TLC460425RF/


If you have a luber/sizer, and sizing die, my first choice, would be the RCBS 458/405 grain gas check mould. If you just want to keep things simple and see how you like casting first, go with the Lee 458/405 hollow base. It will take medium+ sized game, and you don't need another $100 of sizing equipment to size/lube/apply gas checks. It may be the best pragmatic first step.

You can always buy commercial cast bullets to try. Then you can get the appropriate matching mould later. I've purchased from leadhead bullets several times. Excellent quality and service.

https://secure25.securewebsession.com/proshootpro.com/order.htm

I use a SAECO lube/sizer and a .460" diameter sizer die.

Here's a tidbit. If you get the Lee 458-405 hollow base die, you can also get the Lee .452 sizing die. Run the hollow base .458 bullet through the .452" sizer die and you have an excellent paper patch bullet (and a hollow base to tuck the tail into to boot-like the high end custom moulds are designed to do-but the Lee 458-405HB is about ~$20). You can then load that up to 1800+ fps, and not have any leading issues. Accurate too. You will get a lot of accurate high (for a 45-70) and low velocity shooting in for the 45-70 with this set up, and do it all for well less than $50. You don't need a fancy luber/sizer to shoot the Lee 458-405 HB "as is" at ~1300+ fps (13-15 grains Unique), or up to "full house" velocity of 1800" fps with a paper jacket. No cost of gas checks either. A highly overlooked bullet.

If you want a good accurate cast lead bullet for your Marlin 45-70 buy a Lyman mould ,I would recomend the #457191 it has a flat nose no gas check and weights approx. 292 grs.to 300 grs. it feeds great and is super accurate ,my best load with this bullet is 22.0 grs. of Bluedot . You can start at a lower charge like 16.0 grs. if you are shooting at 50 yrds.or 100 yrds.. At 200 yrds. with 22.0 grs. Bluedot it will surprise you . I found this load in an older manuel , it took years . Don't knock it till you try it .
A Browning Highwall Shooter ,

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Taylor:
Lyman 457122 or the Gould hollowpoint is a great one for the marlin lever. Mine casts about 340gr and I use aa2230c(same as 2460 to the tune of 45gr for 1500fps, Gentle and accurate.

As this gentleman mentions, the Lyman 457122HP, which is the hollowpoint Gould bullet, is one of the finest you can use in a .45/70. Not only suitably accurate for target shooting, it is also a devastating big game bullet. Mine casts at 342 grains made from wheelweights, although Lyman calls it a "330 grain" bullet. It is a plain-base bullet, so when I want to increase the velocity some, I put an INVERTED Hormady .458" gascheck on top of the powder charge. 44 grauins of IMR 4064 will launch it at 1350 FPS MV, and it is a real performer over 53 grains of IMR 3031. THIS load will flat stomp a pig!

The #457122HP is definitely my favorite, but it's slow casting those hollowpoints. Beware, too, that if you don't wait a little longer than it normally takes to let the sprue harden and cut it off before removing the hollowpoint pin and dropping out the bullet, you'll get off-center hollow points. The nose is still quite soft inside the mould after the sprue has set up.

With 300 and 350 gr. bullets, I find from 55 to 59 grains of just about any "4895-wanna-be" delivers outstanding accuracy in my '86 Browning.

The powders I prefer the most for this application are Vihtavouri N-135 and Tu5000. Both will shoot 20 shots into a big ragged hole at 75 yards, even with store-bought bullets and any one of half a dozen different non-magnum primers..

just add the 500 grain version to his statement and youve got your answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Nobade:
The RCBS twins, 300 and 405gr, are just perfect for Marlin 1895s. Super accurate, and feed well through the magazine. As for powder, anything goes depending on what you want for muzzle velocity. My favorites are 1000 fps = Unique. 1400 fps = 5744. 1800 fps = 4895 or 4064. 2000 fps=RE7. That's a nice thing about the 1895, it'll burn appropriate quantities of pretty much any powder you might have and give good performance. I even shoot a lot of WC860 in it, duplex loaded to equal black powder speeds. (duplex loading smokeless isn't something I recommend to less than very experienced reloaders though.)