Greetings all,

I am in search of some ideas/opinions when it comes to the hardness of a 255 grn .44 cal LRNFP GC bullet for handgun hunting (.44 mag). When is too hard - too hard, when is too soft not good enough. Please offer up some opinions if you have em'. I have some near linotype slugs now - toying with the idea of going softer...
Thanks
ERic

I like Paco Kelly's idea. Take 5 of the cheapest large size tomato cans available. Cut 1/4" plywood rounds and tape in between them. Load your cartridge so that the velocity @ 25 yds is = to velocity expected @ 100 yds. Go to a place that you can shoot NOT A RANGE and where critters can be expected to clean up the remains. Tape the cans together with the plywood inserted in between,place on a stump or bucket and fire. trace the bullet by measuring expansion at the plywood, splatter and penetration. You should be able to determine what best fits your need for under 10$. Gianni.

Nice idea....

I even toyed with the thought of putting together some ballistic gelatin. - until I priced the goods.....$20 bucks a a shot is not my idea of trial and error! Anyway - Right now I have some metal at a BHN of 16 +/- ....this is my first test for the trials. With a bullet of near linotype I get massive penetration at pistol velocities when the range is moderate (not very scientific test with jugs of water) - on avg I penetrate 6 gal of water and 6" of sandy loam. Problem being - anything over 1200 fps striking vel. and the slugs explode. My goal is to have good penetration with nominal expansion at 1000-1200 fps striking vel. My handy Lyman Manual says that the old #2 receipe is the best compromise for this criteria with a BHN of 16 - 16.5

Anyway - tomato cans and plywood....neve thought of that media before. Might have to give it a go.
Thanks
Eric

I use an alloy comprised of ten pounds of wheel weights, one pound of linotype, one-third cup of magnum bird shot and a three foot piece of 95/5 percent lead free solder. BHN number runs about 14. Bullets from that alloy kill deer very well from my 30-30 loaded to duplicate factory .303 Savage velocity. (190 gr. bullet at 1950 FPS)
If I plan to hunt elk with a cast bullet, I would use my .35 Whelen with a 280 gr. bullet at about 2300 FPS. I might stick with the same alloy as is, or possibly over treat them to make them harder.
The above mentioned Paco Kelly used eighteen pounds of magnum bird shot and one pound of the 95/5 percent lead free solder as his alloy. I would imagine that alloy would water quench harder than a bill collector's heart.
I've only taken two deer with a .44 Mag. One was shot with a Remington factory load with 240 gr. hollow point, the other with Elmer Keith's Lyman #429241. I recovered the factory bullet which shed it's core, but the Keith bullet made from straight wheel weights may still be going.
If I were to use my .44 on deer, I think I would stick with either my alloy or plain wheel weights. For elk, I would definitely heat treat them and make them as hard as I can get them. I'd want that slug to pass clean through for a good blood trail, should one be necessary. I'd also get as close as I possibly could.
Try testing your bullets in really wet soggy newspapers that are not too tightly wrapped up. Works for me.
Paul B.

I've killed 7 deer with Lyman's 429421 at between 1100 to 1300fps with a hardness of Bhn 11. I have never been fortunate to recover a boolit. All passed completely thru the animal regardless of where it was hit. As a result, I've been experimenting with soft nose composite boolits at around 1050 fps trying to get one to stay within the critter. This past season I wasn't able to test the composites on game because I muffed 4 chances trying to find running or walking bucks with a 4x EER scoped 629.It was very frustrating to not be able to even fire a shot. The composites worked very well on telephone books. Expansion was great,they held together well, and killed every book shot at! Next year I'm gonna be using composite boolits in my newly acquired 329PD with it's Hi-Viz front sight.--Shuz

This is just personal opinion, mind you. But, I think straight, air-cooled wheelweights are about optimum for hunting loads. Yes, you can drive harder bullets faster, but you reach a point where they will shatter. This is something you have found out. Wheelweight bullets will rivet (mushroom) to a certain extent, but I haven't ever had any evidence of one shattering. To go just a bit harder, and still retain their malleability (is that a word?), you can heat-treat, or water quench. They won't harden as much as PaulB's alloy, but they will harden a bit. Bear in mind, I've no experience with elk. I am basing my experience on shooting some fair-sized hogs, all taken with cast bullets of various calibers. Here is an air cooled .30 cal WW bullet, after some pretty heavy penetration in a boar. It is what I've come to expect.


Remember, this is just my personal opinion, and YMMV....Bug.

Bug,

Thanks for the input. The pic of your bullet isn't available on my end....probably a setting or something....anyway - thus the exact info and ideas I am looking for - thanks!

I have mountains of metal to play with and lots of various media to shoot at to test bullet integrity. Most of my home grown media is less than scientific but serves my purposes. The biggest problem I am dealing with is shatter on "hard" targets. Also I notice complete lack of penetration and explosive results with a .30cal WW cast bullet but good accuracy. With pistol velocities the WW or slightly harder (treated) bullet as you suggest is probably the best option. Tin is expensive so are the other alloy components for a BHN over 13. I think I will settle on the WW treated bullet for my first few pistol tests and then try a 5%tin mix with WW (Lyman #2) for a comparison.

With the rifle bullets I will have to be more selective on the overall hardness of the metal to stay away from completely exploding a bullet when heavy bone is encountered. The other option is a dual-cast bullet thus acting as a partition style bullet only cast from different alloys rather than jacketed. Many articles I have read and people I have talked to really do like the dual cast option and have nothing but good comments on the results on game animals.

Much thanks all for the help - When in doubt ask.....
I enjoy learning from other reloaders and casters....
Thanks again
Eric