Sorry about coming into the middle of the conversation, but I am a small caliber freak and would like to get the short story on case, powder, powder amount, velocity etc. Often thought about casting for the 17 and wondered how that would work. Where in the world did you get the mold?? Bill.

The mold is sized for WW metal, not pure lead.



You can water-drop these slugs and get suitably hardened WW metal pellets very easily.



As it turns out, no sizer die is required. We have folks water-dropping for hardness, tumble-lubing with LEE liquid allox and simply inserting the pellet as-is into a once-fired, reprimed but un-sized case with fully inside chamfered mouth opening. The pellet sizes down a tad on case loading and is sized down even more when transiting the throat. They are using a tiny bit of pistol powder to boost the speed up some for some longer distance shooting.



Several molds are still available, e-mail me at Oldfeller123@aol.com if interested.



=======================================



BTW, Accurate Reloading is not doing very well, is it? This is the second attempt to get it to take this relatively simple post.



Oldfeller

I got key holing at 10 meters with my Gamo 1000 fps gun. I took some over to a friends place who has a 1250 fps gun and got key holes with that one too.

Ed B

Yes, that makes 10 airguns reporting no success. Things look kinda bleak for Pameula on the airgun side of things. So far nobody has found an easy to do fix but none of the mold cut-down guys have reported yet.



As far as casting her bi-metalic (lead head and tin body) I can't get consistency on the lead head dipper quantity good enough to get a consistent pellet weight. They do seem to want to fly point forward but accuracy isn't very good at all.



Oldfeller

Make it 11 with key holes Used RWS 48 Moly spray for lube used 100% lead. Don

Cast a few out of 95/5 solder, 14.7 gr. keyholed out of my RWS 45. Now we knew this was likely, but hell it cost about the same as a brick of good .22s to see it for ourselves. I'd be first in line for the Brittany version if someone wanted to take time out of their life to get it done.

Kenjuudo,

I am trying to make up a special little pixie dipper made up of carbon brush material (heat insulator material) that will precision measure a small amount of molten WW metal (a head's worth) and keep it nice & hot & molten until it can get dumped down the sprue hole. You'd immediately follow that with your 95/5 solder to get the point forward weight bias Pammy needs to fly point forward.

I've got several attempts on this insulating super pixie dipper, with the current model being very close to being right.

Are you interested in trying it out? If so, e-mail me at Oldfeller123@aol.com and I'll mail my #2 dipper attempt to you.

Yeah, Brittany would be a lot easier but somehow I doubt we'd get the 25 any time soon.

Oldfeller

I'm in fot two Britanys if we are going get a list going for orders..


Ed Barrett

I have e-mailed Mike to find out how many Pammys he got stuck with last go-round. If we do another order of Brittany IIIs then I want to charge enough for them to get Mike back up to ground zero on the first bunch of Pammys. (it was supposed to be a fund raiser, remember?)

Next, IF we do this I am going to DRAG you guys through the spin numbers again and again so you throughly understand what you are going to be good for twist-wise.

And yes you need to actually go measure the twist rate in your actual airguns ....

(PS, I ain't feeling optimistic at all this time around, I am feeling downright "natural pessimistic" on the spin numbers this time through)

Next, we need to shrink the rear driver band next to the boat-tail some. The front driver band engaged about right and felt pretty good on loading in my gun on the Pammys. The rear band was too much and was too hard to seat -- needs to go down some in size (based on my one gun -- we actually need more pellet band seating input from the rest of you fellows).

Last, if we are going to do this .177 pellet again -- PLEASE go to your various airgun groups and invite them to come over here and CRITICALLY participate now. We got some important feedback very late in the game from some of the airgun experts last time around -- this time let's actively ASK for it early and actually GO GET it in early.

Leading with your chin is not the best way to do this sort of stuff, so let's learn from last time and do a whole lot better this time around.

Oldfeller

Fellas,

Sorry its taken me this long to get back to you. I feel bad the original didn't work better. I have had two molds returned. If you live in the US and haven't received your mold please get with me about a reship.

Mike

Why were they returned? Were they not to the Pammy blue print that the group agreed to order off of?

That's bullshit -- the ONLY person that could have justified that (but only before the fact) would have been me since I was the ONLY one that was ever in favor of the Brittany drawing back when it was being discussed (and I was too stinking proud of my given word to have asked for my check back).

When you agree to be part of a group purchase you AGREE TO BE PART OF THE GROUP PURCHASE ... period. Good results or bad. If they had any doubts they should have posted their post for Brittany back when or simply asked for their check back ahead of time instead of just sitting mum by the sidelines back when we were actually dicing through the two different versions. Good Lord knows they had over a week to do something if they thought Brittany was a better design.

Hell, you point-blank asked everybody to post you directly twice on the choice issue that I can remember. Coming back at you now after the fact shows an amazing lack of character.

That is insane -- next you'll have people trying to return custom cut molds because "they don't shoot accurately in my gun". Geeze people, this is NOT retail sales -- this is group buying of custom cut experimental molds for crying out loud.

I couldn't beg, plead or pursuade them to go over to Brittany version 1 drawing to save my soul. Some were real vocal for Pammy and the rest were quietly in favor of Pammy. They made their informed choice back then, now they can live with it.

Mike, you may feel bad about the group's choice but each individual in the group MADE a choice -- they are big boys and can live with it now. Trying to return their mold now is simply absurd and shameful.

Oldfeller

Calm down Kelly.

The molds were returned by the post office as addressee unknown. That's why I asked anyone who hadn't received their molds to contact me.

Mike

Oldfller I agree with everything you said in your post and I'm still in for 2 moulds.

Ed Barrett

I checked the Gamo 1000 for twist, and it seems to be 1 in 16". I used the tight patch and mark on cleaning rod method. Has anyone else checked the twist on their "non-powder" guns?

I've got an old Gamo Sporter (850 fps) and it seems to come out at 15 twist with a tight patch. Not much rifling height on mine, barely leaves a discernable set of rifling marks on a fired full-hard pellet.

Ed how is your installation force on the front band vs the rear band?

Oldfeller

"BTW, Accurate Reloading is not doing very well, is it? This is the second attempt to get it to take this relatively simple post.



Oldfeller"





It's always something... Jssss. 95% this site works fine. The guy runs the thing otta his pocket wth NO chg to us. No ads-- which I for one like. No censoring, no trantrums by the management-- and still you BITCH. You should grind your ass/axe somewhere else.....



Oh, BTW. Thank You Saeed for the forums.

Oldfeller

All the Vipers I cast were made out of pure lead so there was very little resistance. I pushed a Viper through the barrel and it engraved very well. My Gamo was a Christmas present and it's only had about 600 pellets run through it. So it's still getting "broke in"

Ed Barrett

Ed,



Did you feel you got good useable rifling pick-up and spin-up without strippage (or leading) when using the pellets cast in pure lead?



I don't want to change things drastically for the pure lead guys simply to ease the road for the WW metal water-dropper fellows as the goal is to please as many folks as possible.



The new pellet will be lighter and will spin up easier so pure lead is a real possibility without rifling strippage or leading as was reported early on. Since about 1/3 of the people want to use pure lead that capability should be preserved since the only cost to the WW water-dropper guys is a little bit of extra bit of pressure on loading.



In pure lead, did the nose engagement do OK for you? Would you change anything on the nose engagement for pure lead?



Oldfeller

I got hold of some German chamber oil from a friend. It stopped the leading in the Gamo. The bullets still keyholed though. I fired into a water filled pipe in the basement. Hint don't hold the end of the barrel too close to the surface of the water, the gun and me got very wet. the recovered bullets were not stripped. This was in stright sheathing lead. I hav nothing against using wheel weights to cast the new bullet.

Ed Barrett

Ok, let's see if I have it right. Straight lead doesn't strip on the front band or the back band in pure lead if the pellet is lubricated with some silicone chamber oil.

This means we could make the rear band a bit more like the front band diameter-wise for ease in loading and not damage the way the pellet picks up the rifling (even when using soft lead).

Ed, did I get this right? I am proposing dropping the rear band diameter a thousandth of an inch to .179" and tightening the tolerance to +/-.001". This gives us between .001" interference and the .003" interference we have right now. Easier rear band loading for the waterdroppers and a thou less for the pure lead guys. Front band tolerance would go down, but the size would stay the same so it should behave about the same.

If this is right, then I am ready to go make a Brittany III drawing for posting.

Guys, don't just sit out there quietly -- if you see this change has a potential to mess you up please say so now while we are still just talking about it. Once things get drawn and orders start being collected then it gets harder to change back -- so if you think this isn't a good idea for your gun please speak up now.

Oldfeller

Oldfeller

The pellet didn't strip when it was unlubed it just leaded the barrel. I shot some unlubed into the water and they didn't strip either, just left some lead in the barrel. I don't think my barrel is really "polished" yet, it's only a couple of months worth of shooting. With the lighter bullet I think you maybe on the right track with a little less interference for WW.

Ed Barrett

Havent looked to see if I'm getting leading. Used wheelweight and RWS 52 twist unknown and they tumbled. Were a tight fit for sure. I certainly wouldn't attempt to try a two alloy pour to correct it. With my bottom pour,that whole cavity is full faster than I can release the handle. My rifle didnt seem to group as well with pellets above 10.5 grains anyways. I do shoot in my back yard so carrying further is something I don't want. A parachute at 30 yards would be to my liking. If there was a mold in the 10.5 range that did work,it would raise the question for me is it worth doing?

Well, I tried out a new brain storm today. I ground off the boat tail on the Viper to see if it would shoot any better being a little lighter. I realize this wasn't to scientific with not being to control the exact amount I ground off. I just wanted to see if it was close to being stable. I left as small as a rear band as I could, using pliers and a bench grinder, and test fired them in the back yard. The first two hit inline at six o'clock and about one inch apart. I couldn't see the others with my eye. The target showed only three holes of the five I fired, but they were all round and no key holes. I don't know what happened to the other two pellets, it is unlikely I could miss a two by three piece of card board at 25 yds.. Maybe 20grs. will stabilise. Maybe the first two were just luck. Regards Rich.