quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
I have a question; I am now loading up PPCB's with a full house load of AR2209/H4350. There may be a tiny bit of air space and what I would like to do is fill that with compacted fibre filler. The idea is to protect the bullet base and assist in sealing the bore against possible flame cutting of the bullet. I only have cotton ball but do not want to set the countryside on fire so I didn't do it. But, will a small amount of tightly packed cotton fibre burn? A lightly packed cotton fiber filler did not show any scorching with a slightly lower charge.

A small air space will not hurt and I don't believe you can harm a boolit base in any way. As long as a boolit fits and obturates (seals) the bore, there will be no flame cutting.
The problem came about with too soft a boolit that skidded the rifling and opened the land and groove marks at the boolit base wider then the rifling, opening gas channels. The gas check was developed to grab the rifling without skidding but shoot a faster powder and it will also skid and you will still lead the bore. By making the boolit harder, skidding is reduced and velocity can go higher before a gas check is needed. But even with a gas check and a hard boolit, you can make it skid with the wrong powder that reaches high pressure too fast. You want to start the boolit slower before a full pressure buildup.
Your paper patched boolits will still skid if slammed too hard before engaging the rifling and getting a good seal. No filler I know of that is safe will stop gas from squirting along the boolit if the engraved part is ruined. Dacron offers no resistance to gas and it is only used to keep the powder near the primer for consistent ignition.
Primers are a big problem. A magnum primer in too small a case will drive out the boolit before good powder burn happens and you will have a different case capacity for every shot depending on how far the boolit moved. It can even get dangerous if the boolit moves into the bore to act as an obstruction.
What you want is to keep the powder close to the primer, have a primer with a lot of HEAT and low pressure. Keep the boolit in the brass until a good burn comes on. You want a smooth transition to velocity, not a big thump.
Even in the revolver, the faster the powder, the harder the boolit must be to resist damage and effect a seal. Case tension must be tighter and the crimp tighter, that means harder lead. Soft lead will turn to putty with a fast powder, slump and expand at the forcing cone, squirt lead out of the cylinder gap, lead the bore badly and shoot for crap. You can actually go to a softer alloy with a slower powder and a higher velocity.
You need to figure powder choice, ignition, neck tension and alloy for what you want to do. Do not expect soft lead with a paper patch to prevent problems if you start the boolit too hard or do not hold the boolit back long enough.
A soft boolit seated in a case for proper neck tension will size down the boolit so it no longer seals the bore.
I know, I threw in a monkey wrench, but how else do I get revolver groups like I do? Much is applicable to the rifle.
Sometimes you need to sit at the bench and think instead of throwing loads together.
If you get flame cutting on the boolit, nothing will help but to get rid of it to start with.

quote:

Posted 23 June 2009 02:16 Hide Post
Thanks you for taking the time and trouble. Much appreciated.

I listen very carefully to what you say - You are a Master at this game! beer

What you are saying makes complete sense to me. Although I experienced what seemed contradictory (but actually wasn't) with my 44 mag. The hard bullets flame cut badly while the softer ones filled the bore and were rather accurate. That was with a slower, single base pistol powder and not very high max pressure.

I have switched to a slower powder for my 303 Brit for the very reason you outline. I just am not sure I am achieving what I hope to. Range testing will show. Test tube firing is deceptive because the rate of pressure rise, flame temp and peak pressure is all different. All I am doing there is checking bullet fit! Even so, I have identified bullets that don't hold the rifling well and deform at the base due to swaging and slumping maybe.

The one thing I do like about cotton fill - even a small amount - is that it helps clean the bore!


Regards

quote:

what i see there is that your cylinder isn't rotating perfectly on itt's axis.
one side 2-3-4 shoot near to center and 1-5-6 dont. like the hub is slightly bent or off center causing wobble.
which would cause mis-alignment of the cylinder to the bbl.
funny they would throw such similar groups.

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I think your problem was the .44 boolit was a poor fit to start with.

quote:

Originally posted by James Kain:
So I would like to recap, in this thread we found that its best to use a Nylon filler by the name of Dacron. is that right?
I got lost because the topic was changed....

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Thanks for the tips I was compressing it, few! I starting to doubt my memory, because I thought I remember someone saying "Pack it in as much as you can before it starts to push the bullet out.".
That kinda seems a bit much in my book.
Opinions?

quote:

Posted 26 June 2009 09:33 Hide Post
Well I m currently loading for my
1903A3 Springfield - 30-06
1941 Swedish Mauser - 6.5X55
M1 Carbine - 30 Carbine
SMLE Lee Endfield - 303 brit (this one needs alot of TLC)
So I will be using mostly slow burning powders. I m even leaving pistol powders behind for my lead shot. I think I m going to try paper patching. But we will see how it turns out. ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by captain-03:
Can someone post some pictures of how to properly use a case filler such as dacron? I am loading for .308 using cast and H-4895 ..

quote:

Originally posted by James Kain:
Well I m currently loading for my
1903A3 Springfield - 30-06
1941 Swedish Mauser - 6.5X55
M1 Carbine - 30 Carbine
SMLE Lee Endfield - 303 brit (this one needs alot of TLC);-)

quote:

Originally posted by nelsonted1:

quote:

Originally posted by James Kain:
Well I m currently loading for my
1903A3 Springfield - 30-06
1941 Swedish Mauser - 6.5X55
M1 Carbine - 30 Carbine
SMLE Lee Endfield - 303 brit (this one needs alot of TLC);-)

What a fun bunch of rifles!

I use a few grains of Red Dot and a gas checked without check for off hand practice in a 3006 03A3 and Israeli .308 and 860 and 872 surplus originally used in 50 cal and 20mm so I hit both ends of the speed spectrum. I have a single shot 7mm-06 (.280) that will not shoot any powder except 860 and the heaviest 7mm bullets. I thought I had a lemon until I tried the 860 and wound up with five rounds I covered with a quarter at 100.

I have also read some people use drier lint as a filler