We cast bullets, make lube.... does anyone make their own blackpowder? I've been thinking of trying this, the process doesnt look real hard.

Hello;
As someone who experimented with making all manner of Explosives in my misspent youth (looking back, I consider myself lucky to be alive, with all my extremities], I can tell you it isn't physically hard, but the process of combining the ingredients can be extremely hazardous to your health. One little spark from friction and Kaboom.
Grizz

I tried it a few times. Since I had access to pure sodium nitrate and did not have potasium nitrate available, I tried the classic blasting powder formula. It is 72% sodium nitrate, 16% charcoal, and 12% sulfur. Since sodium is lighter than potasium, it is more efficient. I ground each chemical separately in a rock tumbler until they were very fine, then mixed together along with enough water to make a barely sticky paste. I set it out to dry on a metal sheet for a few days, then baked it in a 350 F oven for an hour to drive out the rest of moisture (the oven was turned off before I put the powder in). I passed the chunks of powder through a metal screen to make it fine like FFg.

I ended up with black powder that was about 30% less dense than commerial powder. I read that they compress their powder to about 4000 psi during the manufacturing process and this makes it much more dense.

The powder did not have quite the bang I was expecting. Also, it fouled the bore so bad, I was not able to get ignition after the third round even though I passed patches through the bore after each round. I think it was the sodium that left the rather hard fouling in the bore. It also did not burn as quickly as commercial powder when I lit a small pile of it on the ground. The experiment was a failure, although I learned corning (wetting) the powder while mixing the 3 chemicals greatly enhances performance, and that I have much to learn about making black powder.

Ranb

Oh yes, I have to agree with the kaboom factor here too. Do not ask me why. Hehehehehe.

Ranb

Hello Ken, I recently made a small batch, but have yet to try it in the gun. I used the 75-10-15 saltpeter,sulfur, charcoal recipie. If you do a search for gunpowder or fireworks, then you'll find all sorts of recipies and instructions. It looks like the most hazardous part is the combining in a ball mill. A plastic cantainer, loaded with the wet mixture and some lead balls, screw the lid on and let it turn where no one will get hurt? I skipped the ball mill part and disolved the potassioum Nitrate in boiling water, then added the sulfur and charcoal. I made the charcoal from some willow branches in the front yard. I boiled and mixed unitl it was all wet and goey, then boiled the water off and poured onto a paper plate. I used a stick to stir it abit while drying to make it into granuals. It goes poof, but leave a burning bubble of something on the ground. I guess the mechanical combination makes for a more efficient burn. Next time I get to the range, I'll chrono it next to Goex FFg and see what the difference is.

It isn't hard to mix stuff together and get black powder. I could not get the consistent performance in a rifle I wanted, and had high rates of fouling also. The final grinding process is what is most delicate, but what wood source is used for the charcoal influences the fouling level and power level quite a bit. A fun experiment, made me wonder how the Revolutionary War fighters made it all work. Much of it was fought with frying pan powder ala outhouse, I read. Practice makes perfect, once you have a good source of low fouling charcoal. Just watch out for that Kaboom!! The unwanted one, that is.

Why bother??????????????? Black powder is cheap compared to other powders and I would guess by the time you bought the Potassium Nitrate or salt peter and sulfer and charcoal you would have darn near as much into it as the finished product.

Ken - and others interested in BP manufacture, quality, different brands, etc.:

Go to <http://www.schuetzen.net/bill_knight.htm> and browse. Bill (aka "Madmonk" on the old Shooters BP site) has forgotten more about BP than most of us will ever learn. He has served as consultant to a couple of makers, and has tested and evaluated just about everything on the market. I have a 3" binder and a couple of smaller ones full of hard copy from him on all sorts of BP stuff from Shooters, the site above, and personal correspondence. He sure staightened me out - very courteously! - on a bunch of old wives' tales.

floodgate

Thanks for the replys. I will go to the site that Floodgate posted and browse.
Its not that I want to save money, I just want to know how to do it.

Hello;
I guess I should have added, for those tempted to go this route, that they remember the fate of the inventor of Pyrodex, a victim of his own invention. That happened in an industrial setting with presumeably all the necessary safety precautions in place. Pyrodex is touted as being safer than black powder Then of course there are those third world Fireworks factories that make the headlines periodically.
Even if you mix the ingredients wet, you still have to let them dry to break them up into grain size and then watch out. Also, black powder tends to absorb moisture from the air, which is one reason commercial powders are coated with graphite. If I was in a survival situation and my life was more in danger from not having it, I might consider making it, but from practical experience I can tell you it is safer to make nitro or gun cotton.
Grizz

Well let's put thing into perspective here. Look at grain elevators, and they aren't dealing with anything like blackpowder. Also in recapping tires the grinding that leaves that rubber powder...very explosive. So I would assume that the making of blackpowder and pyrodex is extremely hazardous.

Joe

Aladin:

Well, for starters, "Black powder is just black powder, all about the same." Nope, the range from Swiss to Elephant in velocity/pressure/fouling from shot to shot for a given weight is at least as great as from 4198 to 4350 or 4831 in smokeless. A load that with a coarse "musket"-grade powder like Elephant would go maybe 1200 f/s may run 1500-1600 fps with a "sporting" grade powder like Swiss.

Or: "You can't get enough BP in a gun to hurt it." See above, especially if you go to FFFg Swiss in a large bore.

And so on, and on...

BTW, Aladin, I am making up some seating stems for myself and for a fellow tool nut, for our old Belding & Mull "Straightline" loading tools that are missing some parts. Checked his .30-'06 seater with a Cerro cast and found it was a straight taper, 30-degree included angle, with a 3/32" pilot hole and is a nice fit on the standard GI hardshell bullets. So I got a taper mill to that angle from MSC and am set up to see if that taper also will fit the HBC's, when they arrive. I also have a set of ball-end mills for RN's in various sizes. It'll be interesting to see how these work out; if not, I'll have to make up D-bits for specific profiles for "G" top punches and seating stems.

floodgate

Thanks for the link to the site! I will get a lot of info from that source. When I was making the stuff, there was no such thing as a publicly accessed internet, info was hard to come by, most of what I learned came from experimentation and this stuff is not what I call experimenter friendly. I once lost my facial hair, good bit of head hair, and a lot of skin, just experimenting.

I agree with the comments about it not being cost effective to make, and that is assuming all of it goes kaboom where and when you want. For me, it was a learning experiment.

To be sure the brands and even lot numbers of BP vary a good deal in fps potential and accordingly the psi's developed. I'm developing a load from Swiss 3F in the 45/70 currently and 58 grs makes 1220 fps with a ES of 9-10 under the Lee 500 gr spitzer. Accuracy is now whittled down to the 2" area. My last lot of Goex 3F made 1100 fps with 54 grs under a 500 gr Gov slug-- and a very easy powder to use and get good accuracy from.

Couple FWIW's.

Using a newprint shield over the flash hole is likely one of the most useful BP loading techniques. Makes the stubborn lot numbers burn and perform much easier.

Neck tension. IME appears to be more critical than smokeless in the 45/70-- which is significant in itself. No tension using unsized brass is probably the easiest route to get decent accuracy-- excess lube on the shank serving to keep the bullet from falling free.

>Using a newprint shield over the flash hole

Newsprint shield? Explain, please. That's a new one to me.

floodgate

I believe there is a difference between brands of black powder, simply for the fact at how much attention there was in their manufacture. This plus the fact of better quality and purer components to make it.

That old wives tale about you can't put enought BP in a barrel to blow it up is just that. TC did some tests on this and said it is possible, esp with a barrel that is not of good strenght and quality. The U.S. Navy did extensive testing with BP. It was said that BP could never reach the area of smokeless powder pressures. Not so, better search the web and read up on the Navy test and see what they have found out.

Joe

Wonder if that might be useful with Ball powders?