Don't know how much news coverage the California forest fires are getting in other areas, but here it is on constantly. We have about 10 million people virtually surrounded by the fires, about six or eight different ones. Death toll is at 15, homes burned almost 900; thousands evacuated to shelters, either homeless or looking at that possibility. Anybody knows how to do raindances, now would be the time... Now what might make it a little relevant here is the fact that one of the biggest, that one east of San Diego, was started by a hunter. Saturday he was lost and built a fire to attract attention. It got out of control. several people died horrible deaths, many, many homes burned, Taxpayers, including you and I, will pay billions of dollars for the fire cost and damages, and the families will bear their burden for the rest of their lives. The hunter has been arrested and is in jail. He will be charged with murder as well as for the fiscal damage. Please be careful, we don't want to lose any of you. I'm sorry to say that at least one of them was set by arsonists, police have a description and will find them. That one is extremely close to my gun club according to the maps and TV cameras. It may well be a pile of ashes now.

Good luck Scrounger- We have a little one here on the Monterey Peninsula but it's a candle compared to what you've got going in your neck of the woods. I'm due to a conference in Riverside County in a week. The conference may not happen. The bad news is that you and I both know that the rains aren't due for another 3 to 4 weeks.

How would you feel if you got careless with a campfire and ended up being charged with murder? Financial restitution is one thing (he'd need to be bigger than Microsoft and Cisco combined to pay that bill- consequently his financial life is automatically ruined), but jeez...do we think that a murder charge is warranted? Is the guy a murderer? I bet he doesn't think so! Suppose he fired a flintlock and didn't have the right size ball patch- it smoulders and sets the fire. That could happen to any of us!

I certainly wouldn't say he should be charged with murder. Thankfully that responsibility belongs to someone else. It is most regretable but no power on earth can correct the damage and no amount of punishment will help in any way. There is no answer. Now, those morons who started one of the fires, that's a different story...

I made a related post on BSB Sunday about forest conditions here in Montana. Take a look.

http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1897&PN=1

Southern California is a little different from Montana. Most of our "forest" is chaparral. Scrub oak, chamise, manzanita, ceanothus, etc. The big trees on the high elevations have little value as lumber, most is to soft and weak. In short, our forest has little economic value beyond watershed and recreation. Our old growth chaparral is as devoid of life as Montana old growth timber. But here, fire is the only way our "forest" is renewed. What we need is more controlled burns and fewer morons.

Over here in West Virginia we have had lots of rain.Usually around this time of year some dumb smartass sets the woods on fire.Sometimes they are caught,most times they are not.I feel very sorry for the hunter out there in California.What he did was accidental.I'm sure he panicked about being turned around.With the wind like it is out there, I wouldn't even smoke. I don't know what he was thinking.God help you all.

I don't own a multimillion dollar home on a mountainside. But, I do own a modest home on a hill, surrounded by thick forest. With my modest little place, I cleared enough trees around it, put in some fire lines, and put on a tin roof, so if the fires ever came (as they almost did 2 years ago), I wouldn't get burned out.

Seems odd to me that those who own those multimillion dollar places don't band together and do something similar. Especially considering that about the same thing happens in CA every year.

'Course, that would imply some responsibility for one's own neighborhood. I think maybe that would be sacrilege in those neighborhoods? <GGG>

this might be a stupid question but does insurance cover any of those loses?? it's a tragedy on a grand scale alright..

Not to defend them but the clear area and fire lanes you speak of would cost a million dollars an acre, IF it's available to them at all... The property owner/developer prefers to sell it. Besides, most home fires start on the inside, don't they, Grumble? (GBG)

For the most part, yes, insurance covers such fire losses to the extent of the individual policy. You can also bet that Uncle Sam will be putting in some big bucks for disaster relief. Expect your insurance premiums to go up in response. We're in the election season, so I doubt taxes will go up, at least not for a while.

I imagine most homeowners and busnesses have fire insurance. The insurance company will get its money back by raising premiums on everyone. Gasoline for planes, helicopters, firetrucks, as well as the vehicles themselves, are paid for by taxpayer money. Salaries and expenses for pilots, fireman and others are from taxes also. Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

Ouch, scrounger, ouch! <GGG>

But, there's a difference between mass destruction and individual home fires. I'm sure each community is different in how such massive destruction could be prevented (type vegitation, degree of slope, number of houses, etc), but since this same thing happens dang near every year, it seems pretty irresponsible to me to not do something about it, either individually, communally, or governmentally.

I bet if every homeowner would buy a chainsaw and spend one weekend in early September protecting his property boundry, these huge losses would mostly go away. They might get smoked out, but they wouldn't get burned out. A person has a right (obligation?) to protect his own property. If a neighbor's land endangers another's property, it is foolish to ignore the threat and allow the endangerment to continue.

You're probably right, certainly couldn't hurt. Another "disaster" we see repeated over and over, is houses built on hillsides that "slip-slide" away when we get 2 or 3 good days of rain. They collect their insurance money and rebuild in the same spot. Three or four years later they repeat the same process. I fail to understand why.

I live about 20 miles from the Piru fire. It is smoky and snowing ash. I also live in a "high fire hazard area", at the edge of undeveloped grass and brush land. I am remodelling my house and there are some regulations that apply to me because of the fire hazard. Building codes are requiring stucco exterior and tile roofs in some areas. My mortgage lender requires fire and flood insurance. Private insurors will not sell either to me. The gov't underwrites both. Fire is an unescapable part of the landscape but there are still morons who want to put shake roofs on there houses.

I guess I only feel a small bit sorry for the guy in jail. Ignorance is a basis for negligence in my mind, and he could/should be charged with negligent homicide. Building a small fire pit or fire ring is ridiculously easy. Not being smart enough to do so, or simply too lazy to do so is not an excuse in my mind. Perhaps his misfortune will alert others to the risk they take when building a fire. Maybe then they will at least take some rudimentary precautions. I have no idea how many fires I've built here in Eastern Washington (dry to very dry almost year round) when elk or deer hunting in the mountains. A small fire next to your "stand" can be quite comforting when its below freezing and/or drizzling. Pilgrim

Smoke and ash galore where we live, and some adjacent communities just got mandatory evacuation orders......not us yet.

Years of drought......bark beetle infestation of trees, causing nearly a million dead standing trees in the adjacent National Forest......arsonists starting fires. A land-based incendiary Perfect Storm. There is an incredible "fire load" in these forests, due to the above factors.

Similar conditions in Yellowstone years ago didn't cause a change in Dept of Interior/Agriculture policy; the Cerro Grande fire two years ago did't prompt any changes; massive and widespread fires in AZ, NM, MT and CO got a couple people to scratch their heads last year; big fire in MT this year got swept under the rug.

Gosh-golly-gee, I wonder if those-who-are-smarter-than-we will finally decide to allow some cutting or forest maintenance? Or, will the tree-huggers, sitting in their 10th-story condos, still dictate the stupid policies that have been followed for the last 40 years?

just natures version of urban renewal......

the powers that be not happy with california's politics ???

expres clintons version of moving power to the state level ??

i do hope the best for deputy al and all the rest.

( i lived thru one or two of these....strange to see ash in the air and "red" skies....

You must understand, these fires are simply removing old growth homes, to make room for new growth.

Update on the fire situation......evacuation end point is 1.5 miles from my house, entire San Bernardino Mountains' eastern portion is fully evac'ed. Temps are falling rapidly, and humidity is rising--that's good news. We're still at home, and hope to remain through the night and for the coming days.

Cars are packed with absolute essentials in event of evac and extended stay away from residence--or worse. Had to choose with few firearms to take with us, most will be riding the storm out inside the safe. The "keepers" consist of the guns my deceased father and I hunted with and a couple with documented historical significance, plus a defensive rifle and pistol.

I think my house's location is far enough away from heavy brush to minimize loss possibilities as long as winds stay fairly calm. If the Santanas re-start, all bets are off.

For the evacuees--for the thousands of people made homeless by these fires--AND FOR THE BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN ON THE FIRE LINES--your prayers are respectfully requested.

Thank you all.

Deputy Al, hope you get through OK. The weather change will probably keep the local fire away from my house. They are warning people to be ready to evacuate about 10 miles from me. That is 10 miles of brush and grass but the sea breeze is pushing it away from me. The fire is now burning into the Sespe Wilderness area which hasn't burned in 60 years so it is ready. No heavy equipment is allowed in the Wilderness and there are no hand crews available so that is just going to burn for a while.

quote:

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You must understand, these fires are simply removing old growth homes, to make room for new growth.

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Article in the LA Times the other day about an older neighborhood that burned in a past fire. It has been rebuilt - with million dollar houses. Can't help but wonder what happened to the original residents. This fire will surpass any politicians wildest dream of a make work project. FEMA money is on the way. It ought to be big enough to fuel a new influx of Mexican laborers to rebuild. But I am not going to worry about it - going hunting today!

Depity Al, my prayers are with you and your family and neighbors. Weather the storm well, my friend. I have a package ready to come your way, but I will hold up for a few days. Somehow it seems very insignificant at this point. sundog

Friends--

Thanks for all the kind words, y'all. You know, GOING HUNTING sounds like the single best thing to do right now, but will have to wait a bit.

We're still in the house, no new evac orders for a while anywhere--and the fire seems to be moving away from us currently. Fingers are crossed.

Al, Sent you a PM.....I've an reeely expensive customer event at Rancho Bernardo Inn.....just a few miles away from the Cedar Fire. The event is next Tuesday. Prognosis?

Thanks!

Since we get the advanced course in forest fires up here pretty much every year, a suggestion.
If the fires are even within 5-10 miles of you, consider getting out. With a wind behind them, flames can easily cover a thousand acres in ten minutes. Embers can jump miles. Over 30,000 acres burned in the Toston fire a couple years ago in under an hour. It's open brush and timber like the current area burning, I believe.
Don't take chances. Get out of the area until it's blown through, or is out.

BLT--

I'm not "eyes on" with the Cedar Fire--it's about 70 miles south of me. With fuel conditions as they are currently in this area, I think Ric's observations are quite valid. Dunno about the wind/humidity in San Diego County, and even on the ground/in the area a prediction of fire behavior is a real crap shoot.

I also don't know of a reliable info source other than network news or websites. I don't generally care for the info put out by news organizations, but that is about all that exists at present--and the info so far has been generally good. ABC seems to have the most comprehensive coverage and the most people on the ground--give their Inland Empire news sites a try, or maybe the San Diego affiliate as well. The cop shops and fire folks are absolutely maxed out right now, and if a major outbreak of fire occurs I suspect I'll be getting suited up to assist. Our people assigned to the area are doing 14-18 hour days, and after a week of that bit they are getting a little worn. Multiply that fatigue factor several times over for the fire fighters.

Deputy Al, pard;

I'm sure you know that our thoughts are with you. Hang in there, friend.

My folks live in Rancho Bernardo, and we are staying in close touch with them. They've been in plain sight of fires for days now. Their area is virtually all greenbelt, and they live with a golf-course fairway along one side of their property, so I think they're pretty secure. (Tile roof, too....)

Regards and hoping for the best from Bruce, Karen and Kim

Bren,

That's where I was headed but have since called the event off. Many thanks to you and Al....the CB board just saved me a pile of money and time- very insignificant compared to your folk's home but appreciated nonetheless...... Good luck to you and yours....

BLT, Bruce, et al--

Clouds and drizzle locally and at the coast, showers predicted for weekend. Maybe firefighters can get a handle on things locally with this natural assistance. Dunno about the Cedar Fire, though--largest in state's history, and just huge. We're still in place at home, so keeping the fingers crossed.

THANK YOU ALL for the kind words and good wishes.

I'm really glad the weather is cooperating with the firefighting out your way, Al and all you other Kalifornistanians. Hopefully things will be under control soon. And, I'm really happy that you and yours weren't affected too seriously.

That said, I have a couple comments. Here in W. NM, we have become experts on the quality of other state's smoke. When the fires were in Flagstaff AZ, the smoke was terrible. I suspect it was those nasty little lodgepole Ponderosa pines, and the $50K - $100K houses that were burning. Things were a bit better when the north winds brought the smoke from Colorado, where aspens and half-million dollar homes were burning. Now that we're getting Kalifornia's transplanted fir smoke, sweetened with multimillion dollar home smoke, it is like smoking a blended cigar. Ahhhh! It rolls across the palate like a fine wine (not that I'd know what a fine wine tastes like).

Dang stuff still plugs up my sinuses, though.

If I can get this link to work, you can see what the fire did to our club. Fortunately damage was light, it just rolled over it because there wasn't much to burn.

http://www.wegc.org/fire/

Grumble,

Still smells like farts to me......

Regards....