Whats the thoughts about pistol powders versus rifle powders for cast shooting. I remember calling Winchester about using 231 and they politely backed away from any recommendations. I don't feel funny about using 8 - 10 grains of something like Unique (hot powder should give instant burning.. right?) but for some reason I'm hesitant about loading a case the size of a 7.62 x 54 Russan, 35 Rem, 308 or 30-06 with a slower powder that only fills 1/2 to 2/3's of the case (4985, 5350 or even 4198 and 4227). I know it works but it bothers me. I know you could tip the rifle every time, positioning the powder, but I'm not that programmable. What do you think.... Bill.

Bill, you don't say what velocity you're looking for, and it matters. I use Hodgdon Clays for plinking loads with the 30-30. 7gr of Clays, WLR primers, Oregon Trail .310" 165gr PB, 1200fps and very accurate. No filler needed. But I consider this a max load for this application. I've also used 10gr of AA5 to push a 130gr, .310, cast to 1600fps from the 30-30. No filler. I offer these only as examples of successfully using pistol powders, without fillers, for plinking loads, in the 30-30.

I'm not sure about this BBS, but there is usually considerable information on reduced loads. You might want to give the search engine a try.

Hope this helps.

The velocity that I'm looking for is in the 2000+ fps range. Looking to work up a load for bolt action military match shoots. Thanks, Bill.

Bill,
This is a link to similar loads with Blue Dot in the .223
Blue Dot Loads
When using pistol powders, I think you will run into too high a pressure spike, before gaining 2000fps, with average weight bullets. The usual pistol-powder loads are aimed at reduced velocity/recoil. Doesn't mean they will be reduced-accuracy loads, though. If you're not hunting, what difference does it make how fast they go?

I shoot for 30.06, 303 & 7x57 Mauser cast bullets in Service rifle matches.
30.06 and 210gn Lyman 311284 sized .310 - 34gn 3031 - 1900fps
303 and 190gn CBE sized .314- 32.5gn 3031 - 1860fps
7x57 and 145gn RCBS sized .285 - 29gn 3031 - 1900fps

Note that the powder I use here is AR2206 (Mullwux)which is equivilant to 3031 but marketed in the States by Alliant?

Because we shoot rapid fire events and to prevent binding, I neck turn all brass to account for the larger bullet diameter. Critical to accuracy is to get the correct neck expanding plug; about .002 smaller than the bullet. For example 30.06 expander .308 to hold a .310 dia bullet. The expander designed for jacketed bullets will damage the cast bullet base and cause poor accuracy.

There was a article in one of the reloader digest 13th edition 1994 page 72 by C.E.Harris that recommended 2400 for milsurp cases and cast bullets. His "Load" was 16 grains of 2400 for target and plinking load. This load with 150 to 180 grain bullets and most Milsurp cases average around 1500 FPS 18 to 21 grains will give you 1700 to 1800 depending on size of case. He reccomends cases under the size of the 30/40 Kraig to be crosschecked with a loading manual. I have used this load the 16 grain one just briefly last fall and it showed promise. I will test it out more this spring. I shot it in 308 and 762x54 and got decent groups with it at 50 yards. One thing that Harris Claims that would be a interest to you is that he says 2400 is not position sensative you can shoot it in any position with out no problems. you do not have to tip the barrel ect. He claims this for a fact and I had no problems with the loads I made up. I am looking forward to trying more loads this spring. Also may try some reloader 7 also. Jim

Depity Al, what primer did you use with that slow ball powder? LR or Mag? And did you get a complete and clean burn? sundog

Years ago a friend was complaining about all the different powders he had bought. He wondered if you could limit the number of powders you had and still make everything work. I thought that it was an idea worth considering.

I shoot only cast bullets. I've shot them in just about everything from a 25 ACP to a 50 BMG. For most I use Unique. Certainly doesn't limit my poor marksmanship.

One unexpected plus is that if you buy in bulk you can usually get a good price if you shop around. I try to buy at least 32 pounds at a time.

Up until the latest edition of Lyman's Handbook you could find small Unique charges for just about anything. They now, however, have switched to recommending 5477 for a lot of that. I'd suggest going out and buying a 47th edition of their handbook, the last one that had all the Unique data.

Have not seen the newest Ly manual. 5477 is a burn rate rather similar to 4227. I buy 4227 in 8 lb cans, as it's my favorite cast boolit powder. Felix put me on to using N120 (got some cheap 88 bucks per 8 pounder) which in my experience seems to be a bit slower than IMR4227. This burn rate is very good for alot of different loadings. sundog

Sundog & Dep. Al, I've used rather a lot of WC 860, but always with Mag. primers. Do I get a clean burn with it? No, but in some cartridges, e.g., the 7.65 x 53mm Arg. Mau.(with #314299), a small amount of powdered bran (or Grex) cleans things up nicely. In the '06 and the 7.62 x 54R, on the other hand, you can add Grex, but there's not much improvement. As for accuracy, my '06 shoots the same (1 moa) with WC 860 or 4198 or 3031; so do my Finn Nagants for that matter. However, one bullet, a CBE fat Loverin for the Arg. Mau., didn't like 860 at all, scattering it's shots all over the target. #314299, on the other hand, shot into <2moa with the same load. ...Maven

Bill, I've had wonderful results with 2400 in several rifles using cast bullets. It's an extremely versatile powder and well worth a try behind any cast bullet. I'd rank it the best of the pistol powders for cast in rifles. It isn't pressure of load density crazy like some. You load it, and it just shoots like you expect. Simple.

Look what the cat drug in. Hey Pecos... long time no post'n.

What ya shooten these days?

Fired a five-some of 2400 in the 45/70 last spring and the ES for said was 10. Might have to pursue that loading some day.