Has anyone done a direct comparison test in rifles ?

Well, no. BUT! I did mix some Bear Lube cold formula (it's blue)in with my FWFL. It makes it easier to SEE on the bullets, with these old, tired eyes. Can't say it did anything else, though.

Neal, me neither. I have played with modifing felix lube enough to formulate a batch to exceed LBT's commercial in revolters. That's, however, the trick with any lube, to make it match the application on hand. For revolters, you need to raise the viscosity to make the lube stick hard enough against the forcing cone so blowby, using short boolits, can be offset somewhat. For rifles, you want to lower the viscosity enough for the lube to remain thin enough in the barrel for a day's shoot so it won't purge out randomly, causing wild fliers. Quite simple, really, but somewhat perplexing at times to come up with a certain formulation. But's that's the hobby of reloading in general, isn't? ... felix

I did one (1) same rife/same load/on same day comparison with the heavy gas checked 8mm Maximum bullet in a sporterized 1924 large throat Yugo lubed with modified MOAS FWFL (20% blue candle wax added to increase the stiffness to be very similar to the touch and feel consistency-wise) comparing it to the same lubricsizer, same mold, same WW metal used bullets that were lubed with Paco Kelly's Apache Blue (left over from right before emptying out my lubriciser to change it over).

All rounds were loaded in Winchester 8x57 brass to the same OAL using the same powder charge (exact same die and powder measure settings which were unchanged from the last loading session as my 8mm set-up stays on its own turret all the time).

I could not tell any real difference in performance as far as leading nor as far as accuracy went. The rounds shot to the same point of aim and grouped the same (the same as within MY natural 10 shot shooting variation -- which was bigger than any lube-to-lube effects, I do believe) I was grouping 3-4" for 10 shots that day shooting 100 yards at a range off of sandbags using full case loads of IMR 7383 AND using a "sandbag stop" instead of my shoulder. I shot 10 rounds of each lube (Apache Blue first), followed by another go round of 5 rounds each as I wasn't exactly super pleased with my shooting that day by any stretch of the imagination. The second go-round of 5 each was a pure warm barrel test for leading.

(Hey, I don't like recoil -- I still managed to bruse my pointer finger on my left hand on the front sling bracket as the gun was jumping up on the bags pretty good).

I was using 4 lube grooves filled at that point in time as they were stiff loads. The bore was scraped clean and shiny by the gas check on each shot, no powder residues remained and there was a blast star on the muzzle that was slick (no build up or "lube star" as the blast was too much to leave it sitting there). The bore wiped clean when I got home using just cloth patches and some Shooter's Choice to wet them with. No brush was needed, no brass lathe scouring material was need -- there was no leading. Not a whole lot of powder fouling either, which says to me that the pressures were up in the "good clean burning range" for IMR 7383.

I suspect I could have lubed one fewer of my lube grooves and still have "enough lube" to prevent leading when using either one of the two lubes. Still, there was no discernable difference in accuracy or leading performance for that day's testing. I normally lube only 3 grooves when shooting milder loads (and I generally shoot better, too).

In any case, I am out of Apache Blue lube and I am out of the 8mm Maximum bullets that I lubed using it -- so modified MOAS FWFL is it for me for the next few years. I don't feel ill equipped about that as I got enough "proof" that day to satisfy me that FWFL works about as good as Apache Blue.

I did the same thing with Veral Blue Commerical using a .44 magnum revolver. Same load, same bullet from same mold. Sizing die was slightly different however(I had lapped it out some since I put up the slugs with the Veral Blue Commercial bullets) so I can't claim complete apples to apples on that test, not totally. Still, such very similar results from both lubes that I was once again the major cause of variation, not the lube.

Oldfeller

Thanks much for the answers.


Neal

Is felix vs Apache Blue gonna be on ESPN? Is it a best of 7 series or just a winner takes all one time bout. What's the line or is it even money?

Ray,



The pay-in cost ratio to actually make the bet had a 5 to 1 advantage towards wagering on the Felix lube.



The people who wanted to bet on Paco or Veral had to pay five times as much just to place their wager.



So far the game is all tied up ..... ain't nobody won.



Now were is that little shoulder strap carry tray vendor fellow with the little 10 ounce squeeze bottles of blue juice ?? You can make your own snow cones at home if you have the little squeeze bottle of blue juice.



<g> Oldfeller