Hi there

I've loaded thousands and thousands of rifle cartridges,and quite a few handgun cartridges with jacketed bullets, but not too many cast bullets.

I started out with 45 COlt today, and loaded some 250gr SWC. I crimped them well into the crimp groove, they function fine in my revolver, they don't move back into the case or mov hout of the case, but they spin around if I twist them!

Is this normal? Did I bell the case mouth too much? Not enough neck tension? THe cases are brand new.

They shouldn't spin or be loose in any manner. I think you meant to say did you expand them too much because belling does that, only bells (flares) the mouth and if you do it too much the case won't fit inside the bullet seating die. I would think if you have the correct caliber dies that they are expanded correctly and this leads me to believe maybe the bullets are too small in diameter. Newer manufactured 45 Colt revolver normally have groove diameter running around .451 and .452. The older Colt diameter use to be .454 or larger. For better accuracy you need to size to the cylinder throat diameter if your revolver will let the cartridge chamber with a fatter bullet in it. Mike your bullet and see what they are. Mike the expander stem on your die too.

Hmm..no these are new cases, so they aren't over expanded. However, usually I run new rifle brass though the dies to true up the necks, and I didn't do this, since the mouths looked good. Maybe I need to. The bullets are .452..According to the bullet company..I'll check the diameter and I'll try sizing some brass, maybe they need a little squeeze. Thanks

I always run new cases through my dies to true them up like you do. I don't trust the factory sizing on the necks. Give what you said a shot.

Gatehouse; too much of a roll crimp can bulge the case walls lessening neck tension. You can seat a bullet without crimping any(back your die up a 1/16)then see if that bullet turns in the case, if it doesn't you'll just have to back off on the crimp a little.

you didn't size them did you

quote:

Originally posted by Gatehouse:
THe cases are brand new.

Did you resize them before loading and crimping like you're supposed to do with every brand new case?

What brand dies are you using. They aren't Hornady 454 dies by chance, are they? Or are you using a Lee Factory crimp die for crimping? Both of these have a resizing ring in their crimp die to ensure that rounds are small enough to chamber easily. A non-issue with jacketed. Not so with cast.

New brass MUST be sized. You need neck tension on the boolit. Crimp is NOT a solution.

Hornady dies give the best accuracy of any revolver dies made.

I have loaded thousands of new pieces of brass without incident, but I will say this: if a manufacturer get sloppy in production it is possible the brass tolerances can go south, resulting in loose projectiles.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatehouse:
Hmm..no these are new cases, so they aren't over expanded. However, usually I run new rifle brass though the dies to true up the necks, and I didn't do this, since the mouths looked good.

No, I didn't size them, as I already said (quoted above )

The mouths were uniform and all..

So that is probably my problem. Thanks



Th

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Hornady dies give the best accuracy of any revolver dies made.

Yes, I know. I run alot of them. I'm referring to specifically the 454 and 475/480 Ruger die sets that contain a 4th crimp die. The typical 3rd die (seater) has the normal roll crimp step and it's just fine. It's the 4th die in the set that can cause problems. It resizes the case to ensure smooth chambering. Both brass and cast boolit get sized slightly. The brass springs back more than the softer boolit which can leave a loose fit. Since it's normal to run cast oversize, to fit the throats, this compounds the problem. The Lee FCD for pistol calibers does the same thing. I ran into this on my 480 Ruger about 5 years ago and contacted Hornady about it. Don't know if they resolved the issue or circular files it.

I also agree that new brass should be sized first. I've learned the hard way that it's not best to trim it til after the first firing and resizing unless the cases are drastically long or vary alot. New cases that have been sized, then trimmed to min. commonly come out short afwards.

Yes, it is true that cases shorten after firing as they expand to fit the chamber.
We have to be careful with crimp dies and sometimes it is better to just use the seat die to crimp. I use a washer under the die and when all boolits are seated I remove the washer, run up the nose punch and crimp them all.
With hard boolits I have no trouble with the extra crimp die.