For my first attempt at casting for my .44 mag I will be using a Lee sizer on my RCBS press and Alox lube. Till I try the Alox I am not willing to invest $100 in a lube/sizer such as the Lyman 4500 or RCBS lube-a-matic. I've read all I can find about Alox. Some recommend cutting it 50% with mineral spirits. My understanding is you put the bullets on a plastic bowl or container, pour the Alox over the bullets, agitate them, then place on wax paper to dry overnight. When using Alox do the bullets actually dry to the point where the Alox is not sticky? Can I lube a couple of hunderd, let them dry, then put them in a plastic box until I'm ready to load them? Do most who use Alox cut it 50% with the mineral spirits? My concern is that the bullets will remain a sticky mess and get all over your hands and equipment as I reload them.

I tried Alox for the first time last week. I too am reloading 44 mag.

I didn't cut my Alox but otherwise applied it in the manner you discribe. The stuff stays slightly tackey. I cast and lubed about 500.

After loading the bullets, you can easily rub the exposed portion of the bullet to remove the lube from the non-bearing surface.

The results at the range were great. The bullets flew straight. I shot 150 rounds with far less leading than with commercially cast bullets! I am shooting a reduced load (240gn Keith style, no gas check, 8.5gn Unique).

Good luck.

A suggestion which has worked well for me:

Dust those tacky Alox-lubed bullets with Motor-Mica or talcum powder. Makes them nice and clean to handle (and reduces the risk of the bullets picking up grit which would later scratch the interior of your barrel.

[URL=http://www.midwayusa.com ]Midway[/URL] has (or used to have) Motor Mica. One can will last several lifetimes used for this!

jpb

[ 05-26-2003, 18:57: Message edited by: jpb ]

I've used Liquid Alox straight as long as Lee has been marketing the stuff. Have run into a couple of batches that might have benefited from cutting but have never tried it and most lots don't seem to need it.

Stay away from setting it on wax paper or aluminum foil to dry. It sticks tight enough to tear those. I use a cookie sheet from a dollar store.When it builds up too many rings from bullets having been dried on it, I just heat it a little and scrub of the excess lube with a sheet of newspaper.

Tumble your bullets in fairly small batches. Anything over 150 or so at a time gets hard to get uniform coverage on depending on the size and shape of your container.

Bullets lubed with Liquid Alox store fine in plastic containers until you are ready to use them. Evcen for years if need be.

The lube on the nose can be rubbed off as has been noted, but it's a chore and I would only bother for hunting ammo.

The Motor Mica or talcum powder trick sounds intriquing, but both of them are mild abrasives and I am a little leary. Might try it for hunting amma, but my range ammo is gonna stay right in plastic boxes until it goes into a gun.

Some of the boys speak well of Rooster Red Jacket lube. Seems it dries hard, but is recommended for the lower velocity pistol rounds. I'll get around to trying that, but haven't yet.

You're on the right track with that Lee sizer. They do an excellent job. Lubisizers are a pain in the ass.

Hi LeftoverDJ

You are correct. I should have mentioned that both are (very) mild abrasives. However, both are VERY fine, and I would use them in anything short of a benchrest barrel.

I figure most factory tubes would benefit from a little polishing! I've shot over a thousand of these "motor mica dusted" bullets through one particular barrel, and it shoots the same as it ever did. I've examined the bore with a strong magnifying glass (sadly, I have no borescope). If there is any abrasive/polishing effect I have yet to see it.

Leftoverdj has a lot of good advice -- read that post again!

jpb

Leftoverdj: Great tip about using the cookie sheets. Makes sense that if the Alox sticks to the bullets it would make the bullets stick to the wax paper too. I'll pick up a cheap cookie sheet at the local dollar store. Guess I'll also pick up a plastic container to apply the Alox. I don't think my wife would understand me using her Tupperware to apply the lube in. Bought a large spoon to remove the metal tabs from the wheel weights as I melt them. Somehow I didn't think she would let me use one of the kitchen spoons for this either. Women sure are funny about some of the needs we men have.

Carroll, make that a stainless bowl rather than a plastic one. You can heat it to clean it when the lube residue builds up. Get a couple of packs of those plastic boxes for lunches to store the finished product in while you are there. Take a look at their junk tool section, too. I got a deal on the "C" clamps I use to fasten tools to the bench and also found a huge center punch I use for case neck flaring. Wasn't for the dollar store, I'd never get any reloading done.

And your wife is right on this one. Anything we use for cast bullets should never again be used for food purposes.

[ 05-27-2003, 17:52: Message edited by: Leftoverdj ]

Thanks for the kind words, JPB.

I think you are right on the Motor Mica trick. Mica and talc are VERY mild abrasives and may well be helpful to many barrels. I'm certainly going to use it in a couple of milsurp rifles with mildly frosted bores. The number of rounds I put through them won't hurt and might help.

At the other extreme, in my PPC days, I put 5-10,000 .38 Specials a year through a S&W 686 for about five years. At that level of use, any abrasiveness would have been too much.

I'm not talking about using the wife's spoons or Tupperware for food after I use it for casting purposes. I'm referring to her giving up some of the kitchen utensils for a better cause, like casting bullets, for a fishing project, or maye something to store parts in for my Corvette!

Thanks for the tip on a stainles bowl for the lube.

Try a big magnet from the back of a speaker for pulling the steel clip from wheel weights out of the pot.
Ed

Carroll,

you say:

I am not willing to invest $100 in a lube/sizer such as the Lyman 4500 or RCBS lube-a-matic..

me:

How about buying my RCBS Lube-A-Matic complete with the following dies: 0.310, 0.357, 0.458 and two nose punches, one for 30 caliber, one for 38 pistol. All yours for $40 + postage?

Let me know..

Good evening,
Forrest

Forest: I sent you an email about the RCBS lube-sizer. Tell me the total pirce with shipping and I'll send you a money order.

Thanks, Carroll B

Carroll,

You have a personal message.

Good morning,
Forrest

There is an excellent article by Glenn Fryxell on bullet lubes at this site http://www.sixguns.com'crew/index.htm
I have read that the lube that Lee and Lyman sell is Alox 6605. I have not reasearched the information and no more than I use, the retail price is not burdensom. I've been using an ice tea spoon to skim my lead pot. The dross is ploped into an old enamel ware cup. Both the cup and the spoon came from a thrift store years ago. I have been using a margerine or cottage cheese container to lube the bullets with the Lee alox. It had not occured to me to melt the residue for reuse, but I think that the microwave would handle the chore nicely.

I'm a little confused on what can or needs to be lubed. Does the Alox lube muzzle loading bullets and also cartridge type bullets? Thanks, Mike

Four Tails,

If it's lead or lead alloy and comes into contact with the bore, it needs to be lubed.

Muzzleloader, breechloader, or loads somewhere in the middle like a turret gun or a percussion revolver, it all needs to be lubed. Liquid Alox is a pretty good way of foing that most of the time.

Jacketed bullets mostly don't, and the ones that do are lubed at the factory.

Ed Harris wrote an excellent article about alox lube over at loadyourown.com I don't have the link stored but a search should bring it up. He was buying it and thinning it but as I recall he had to buy it by the gallon. A gallon of Alox thinned 50 to 75% would lube a lot of bullets! Mineral spirits will thin it. Acetone will thin it and dry faster. Richard Lee said a little bit is all that's needed and He's right.It takes a lot less Alox than you think. I always let my bullets dry 3 or 4 days before handling them.

A note to Fourtails, anytime lead and steel contact each other, some form of lubrication must be used.

Alox is not recommended as a black powder lube! It combines with the solids in black powder and makes a tar-like substance that rapidly fouls the barrel and is difficult to clean out.

x

Since I will be using the "Standard" mix of lead, tin, antamony I have a further question. I WAS planning on using Alox to lube my bullets for my flintlock and since it will make tar out of the black powder and a mess in the barrel, what do I use to lube the bullets? How about Natural 1000 bore butter from TC and taking some on the end of my finger and going around the bullet? Or Crisco? Or am I stuck with buying a sizer/lubricator? Thanks, Mike

FourTails
When I Shoot Maxi Balls or Real bullets in my muzzle loaders I lube as you describe, Any of the available paste type black powder lubes will work well. You can even use Crisco grease if you like. I always cast my muzzle loader bullets out of pure lead. I have never tried hardened lead mixtures for my muzzle loaders.

Thanks for the information on the lube. I just had a thought. When fly fishing I origninally purchased fly line floatant for my dry fly line. It was somewhat costly (along with all the other "toys" needed for dry fly fishing), and a friend who had dry fly fished for trout many years before me had a special concoction he used to dress his fly line to keep it floating high and slick. The mixture was 1/2 Mink Oil and 1/2 Saddle Soap. It was cheap and easy to make. One just carefully melts equal parts over the stove in something metal stirring rapidly until mixed (do not over heat-just enough to melt and mix) and then let set to cool. "Wallah!" Take two cheap sponges and lather them with the stuff (one side of sponge each) and drag the fly ling though them to coat it. Keep the gooey sides of the sponges facing each other when done and stick them in a sip lock bag along with the mixture. I use a flat metal Mink Oil can for the mixture. It's easy to swipe the sponges in. Sooooo.....what does this have to do with bullet lubing?? I wonder if it would work on my lead conical bullets? Any suggestions? Thanks, Mike

4 Tails, As Leftoverj said, you need to lube any bullet metal that contacts your bore (smooth or rifled) to prevent leading. However, Alox, liquid or solid, isn't formulated to dissolve black powder or Pyrodex fouling. In fact, almost none of the lubes that you'd use with cast bullets in center-fire rifles is. On the other hand, the proprietary lubes (T/C, Ox Yoke, etc.) do work, but are expensive. You can also concoct a batch of Emmert's Lube easily and cheaply. It is intended for black powder or Pyrodex loads and does not need a lube/sizing machine for application. The formula is 8 oz. beeswax, 7 oz. white Crisco and 1.5 oz. Wesson Oil. Another version is 50% beeswax, 40% white Crisco and 10% Canola oil These are by volume.). I use the latter formula and it is effective.

Paul, I think I will go with the latter of the two concotions as it looks easier to make. I'm guessing I just melt this over the stove in a tin cup or can with the vise grips attached stirring it until mixed with one of my wife's fine, antique, silver plated spoons until thoroughly mixed, right? Thanks again, Mike

Mike, Yes, you can cook it on the kitchen stove, but don't overheat it as it reduces its effectiveness. Hope this helps, ...Paul

Paul, home again and read your post. Thanks for the info and will be staying in touch. Mike

Trick for Lee Alox. Little goes a LONG ways. Take ziplock freezer bag or heavy sandwich bag, put in a few DROPS(half teaspoon)followed with about tablespoon for 70% rubbing alcohol (cheap-clean) roll around in bag then add handfull of bullets. Roll around a little, then shake bullets out on foil or wax paper (alox so thin sticking no big deal) to let dry overnight. Then get second handfull bullets to put in bag. Go again. You'll be suprised how many you can coat with so little alox. When done, squeeze air out, close zip on bag and store. When ready to reuse, just add a little alcohol to start. After once or twice, you'll know how to adjust the mixture. I do it to all bullets including after sizing and even store bought pre-cast. Never gets your hands messy. Wipe off bases on old towel prior to loading to keep powder from sticking and excess running into powder on hot days.
For muzzleloading, stay with T/C or OxYoke. They will last long enough that expense is not that bad. Will "season" barrels(like a cast iron pan) for FAR less cleaning. Crisco will go rancid especially in the heat or long storage. Runs everywhere in the heat.