Bretty boy,you and Pat said this: Why is it people always shoot either 1 inch or 1/2 groups? Why doesn't anyone ever shoot 3/8ths, 3/4, or 7/16th? This has perplexed me for years and maybe you can answer it for me because I have a heck of a time shooting 1/2 groups no matter what I do. (imagine there's a little smiley face here because the damned button won't work)

Pat[/quote]

Simple my good man. 95% of the groups reported are measured with a Mod. 1 eyeball which is calibrated by guess and by gosh with a good dose of ego thrown in to lubricate the whole works. I've often been amazed at the way some of my 1 1/4" groups become much closer to 1" with the proper application of foggy memory and competitive lie telling 'round the ol' pot bellied stove. Not that we LIE mind you, we just round down to the nearest common denominator. This is based on my experience as a World Famous Ballistician, Crime Fighter and All 'Round Good Guy.

Truthfully? I think there a bit of truth in preceding paragraph. But mostly I'd say guys look at the 1" target squares and approximate. I have measured a few with a dial caliper and to be honest, calling a 1.610 group "about 1 1/2" is good enough for me. An honest half inch group from any production rifle, cast or jacketed, is something to be remembered. Mind you thats at least 5 shot groups for me, 10 shots are the real test and if you back things off to 200 yards and do 5-10 shot groups you really separate the wheat from the chaff. I've only done that a couple times. Generally you'll be pretty sad when it's over.

Add in a little personal pride and stubbornness, plus the magic of the accurizing keyboard, and you get a 7/8" group that gets called "about 1/2" or the 5 shot 1 3/8" plus group with 2 flyers that get discounted and the best of 3 gets called 1/2".

Human nature pal. Human nature.

To that I say go here on your own forum:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=20344&...ighlight=6.5+grendel

Go down to post #26 Look at the target, a real target (remember Bretty how I use to do a lot of marker pen targets?) and look and behold and there is measuring tape there to prove it. Also read that post.

By the way 45 2.1 has my target picture of that same bullet, same load at 300 yards. So does Larry Gibson.

Same old bullshit from you pal.

Joe

Joe, I hate to burst your fragile little ego, but Pat and I weren't talking about YOU. Thats right, we were talking about people in general and not YOU. Oddly enough you've been gone so long that many of out members have no idea who you are. So if you're thin skinned or have a guilty conciense or something please just ignore anything over there where you are not specifically mentioned.

Strange as it may seem I did mention you a few days back. I said it was too bad your abrasive, confrontational personality got in the way of you passing good information along. But I see you still prefer to belittle other people and use foul language rather than attempting to get along and play nice.

Whatever your problem is Joe, I still wish you well.

I see no foul language. I do see you're a psychologist now though.

Just trying to tell you many of you are wrong on the rpm limits of lead alloy cast bullets.

Back to the problems on that forum. Like the colonists that started our great country, they came across ocean to escape taxation and lost of their freedoms, to mention a few things. They wanted to build a new better country. Like them the original forefathers of that forum wanted to build a better cast bullet forum, having noble ideas and intentions. Well as you see this country is now politically split and corrupt. The one party has become extremely far left. Like that party, so have the founding fathers of your forum. You all speak of freedoms and such on your forum, but now it's policed like Nazi Germany. Members are free to say as they wish on there. Your next victim appears to be JoeB. Grant you, I wasn't overly fond of what he said about Felix, but I don't see where he used any vulgar words or names. I would hardly call calling Felix Dr Felix a vulgar or derogatory name. In fact, depending on how far Felix accomplished his college education, he may very well be a doctor. JoeB was just challenging Felix aggressively. But the "founding fathers" don't see it that way and will haunt JoeB until they are satisfied, along with your pleasant pm's that you love to sent people that rub you the wrong way. I honestly think the "founding fathers" should be employed by the White House since you all are so knowledgeable on ALL problems. Maybe you can solve a lot of problems this country and world has.

Don't worry about my ego, it's not as fragile as yours. You belittle more people then I ever will, you have this unique talent of passive belittlement that I'm not sure you are aware of.

I don't know what the solution is to a smooth running forum or how to stop a pissing contest. Not sure anyone does on any forum. The closest I've see a forum come to it, is this Accurate forum here and particularly it's Political section. Those boys really go after it in there, yet it survives and nobody threatens to travel to another members home and beat them to a pulp.

Likewise, I wish you well too Bret. Contrary to any belief I don't like seeing anyone being harmed and it utterly disgusts me that people kill people. I wish all the murders and wars would cease. Have a good one.

Joe
P.S. Oh sorry, forgot, got off topic. How about the thread I told you to check out on your forum. You had better believe that AR15 of mines shoots those kind of groups consistantly and at velocity, and with no special alloy like lino type. What say you to that, since you didn't say?

He called Felix a liar and attacked him in posts I deleted. It was entirely unneeded. I don't think he is aware of Felix's credentials or background. He's been warned and I hope he takes it to heart.

I have no dog in the RPM discussion. I don't know what the limits or non-limits are. It's all theory to me.

As for our board, that is none of your business. You had a chance to help when you were a member and chose another path. Whats done is done Joe. Let it go. No amount of grousing about the staff there will affect anything. Start your own site and run it the way you want if you think you have a handle of the issue.

BTW- Bullshit is foul language, I wouldn't say it in front of Mrs. Starmetal. That makes it foul in my book.

Yes, I agree if he attacked Felix that aggressively, indeed something should have be done. Felix, in my book, is a terriffic man. He's honest, brilliant, and faces life with a handicap. I admire him for all that.

Well, I'm quite take back you admit your deficiency in the rpm subject. Bret, I've done a lot of experiments, most failed, but some succeeded. That Yugo SKS is one success, the AR15 in 6.5 caliber is another. In fact the AR15 one has really captivated my attention.

BTW- Moron is foul language to me. My other more kinder wording for BS is "horse hockey" from old Col Potter on Mash.

I have enough to do keeping up with three forums I'm on.

Joe,

What I asked Bret wasn't aimed at anyone in particular and was just a joke which he seemed to get, maybe it should have been in a PM. Joe B. did go a little over the top with his reply to Felix but maybe he was just having a bad day and has since set things right. And having a thick skin and sense of humor is a necessary part of getting involved in these forums. If you took what I wrote personally I apologize as it wasn't my intent.

Pat

Pat,

Hello there. No beef with you. The second initial idea of my first post was to try and tell the two of you that high speed velocity with accuracy can be obtained with the 6.5 caliber. That's all I was directing at you.

Doesn't matter what JoeB or anyone else done, Bret looks for stuff like this so he can "bully" them around. I imagine at this point he feels pretty macho about himself. Quite a few long time members have left because of certain moderators. They haven't even noticed the recent disappearance of a very long time member because they are so absorbed in themselves.

Have a good day.

They are still having fun playing together, isn't it sweet to see the boys playing so nicely together?

Oldfeller

Gee Kelly, I thought you went to that happy Karlina shooting ground up in the sky. What the heck you been up too? Still stuck on those motorcycles?

Yeah, the boys are still at it, even after concluding that me and you were the problems before. You can't tell them it's "them" that is the problem.

Joe

Yes indeed Joe,, I am amazed we still exist myself.

You could do everyone a favor and start your own forum. I am sure you would be 50X as successful.

Why is it you care anyway?,, just curious...........

hmmm tough one...ah, just a pity to see so many people brainwashed?

Look, I don't know or care what the beef is but if you're including me in this statement I think it's your turn to do the apologizing.

I don't know what's happening here is this from some other board? If so, just curious why it's here?

Loyd, I dunno. I only read this forum every week or so to see if anything new has been invented. I haven't pulled a trigger in over a year now and really don't seem to miss it very much.

Actually caught rust forming in the bore of one of my guns and took an hour or so to clean them all and grease them up for storage. Gave a couple more pistols and rifles away, (and yep, Karlina was one of the give-aways, too).

Joe, I've been occupied putting longer lasting tires on motorcycles (3-4x longer lived tires) and helping provide improved $86 cam chains that last a good bit longer than stock chains for only $45 (plus finding some dollars to maintain the site in the process).

Same old, same old in other words. I write "how to" stuff and tease and joke with the boys and girls.

In other words, I'm having fun ...

Hey Joe, you need to get away from that there stress site and see if you can find a place more in tune with your liking. Try something else for a change.

Take up cold mountain air motorcycling ....

(freeze your ass off)

<grin>

Oldfeller

quote:

Originally posted by Oldfeller, same as before:
Loyd, I dunno. I only read this forum every week or so to see if anything new has been invented. I haven't pulled a trigger in over a year now and really don't seem to miss it very much.

Actually caught rust forming in the bore of one of my guns and took an hour or so to clean them all and grease them up for storage. Gave a couple more pistols and rifles away, (and yep, Karlina was one of the give-aways, too).

Joe, I've been occupied putting longer lasting tires on motorcycles (3-4x longer lived tires) and helping provide improved $86 cam chains that last a good bit longer than stock chains for only $45 (plus finding some dollars to maintain the site in the process).

Same old, same old in other words. I write "how to" stuff and tease and joke with the boys and girls.

In other words, I'm having fun ...

Hey Joe, you need to get away from that there stress site and see if you can find a place more in tune with your liking. Try something else for a change.

Take up cold mountain air motorcycling ....

(freeze your ass off)

<grin>

Oldfeller

Kelly,

I figured you were fooling with those motorcycles. Hey, you want one to run better, less maintenance, etc...buy a Jap bike. Then you can really storm those 180 switch back mountain roads. Hey I done a lot of ass freezing riding my bike in the Rocky Mountains.

No stress here been doing many things keeping me occupied. Restored my Allis Chalmers WD45 for one. Back to wiring houses too. Got to make some money for my hobbies. Bought me a new truck too. Got wood interior shudders to do for the Mrs. Still doing my work working. Knotty pine paneled my neighbors house and I made some of his finish trim molding for him too. On a bunch of forums, built me a 6.5 Grendel AR15 that happens to love cast bullets, so that's been a lot of fun this spring and summer. Maybe I'll harvest a deer with it this season. I just come in from a little muzzle loading deer hunting on my farm right before posting this to you.

Jump on that bike of yours and take a spin up this ways sometime. Jumptrap has asked about you. I told him I thought you dropped off the face of the planet.

Stay in touch
Joe

Yep, dropped of the face of the gun planet anyway.

Kelly...pm your way.

Loyd----You ask a most appropriate question. Why is this here? Beats me. 45Nutt has his own forum(Cast Boolits)and Bret 4207(formerly Tpr Bret)is one of the moderators there. Starmetal(Joe)was banned from that site. What you say better not displease anyone of several people are it gets censored. To me akin to going hunting with a bunch of preachers. This bickering would be censored there--atleast Joe's side of it. Politics the same-- taboo subject--strictly forbidden. Saint George Bush is highly protected species,but Hillary,Bill,Chelsea Clinton,Gore or Kerry fair game for anything you want to say(that's not discussing politics when you blast one of them). But it's ok for them to come here to bicker. Sorta like don't crap in my yard,but it's ok if I take a dump in yours. If they want to argue with Joe(Starmetal) allow him back to their site and have at it. There have been some shots taken at Starmetal at their site and where he is not allowed to defend himself that is most unfair. About like complaining about a guy not fighting fair because he hit you with his crutch. As you may have guessed I am very much against censorship. What is this doing here? This is not the first time this same group has bickered here.

Carpetman made me think. I didn't answer 45nuts post truthfully. He asked why do I care. Well, it's not if I care or not, it's that (and they won't admit it) my name was brought up again most recently in certain threads. Then derogatory remarks were made about me. Like "Starmetals One Ragged Hole Groups" or "Yeah Sounds Like Bull To Me" or "Keyshooting I'd Say" and more. So Ken, that's why.


Pat I, you asked me to apologize if I had a beef with you (which I said I didn't). Funny, remember the thing that ticked you off that I said was "brainwashing". Think about it, that's one of the brainwashing things "they" get you to do.

I won't lie, there are lots of good people on that forum. Good human beings. Lots of very intelligent information too. Thing is the leadership sucks.

Back to apologizing. I can't think of any other forum where they insist a member do that.

So fellows you want me to just fade away? Quit bringing my name up and the derogatory remarks and I will...ok?

P.S. Oh Carpetman...Amen...but watch, if you agree or stick up for me in the slightest, they'll be on your behind next.

Starmetal---You shot a one ragged hole group? Congratulations. When did this happen? Tell us about it. Now Saeed will have to take out a loan to pay for all the bandwidth this will consume.

quote:

P.S. Oh Carpetman...Amen...but watch, if you agree or stick up for me in the slightest, they'll be on your behind next.

That ain't no shit either! Scot

Ray,

Here's a little bit about that ragged hole group. It was a 12 gauge shotgun using a reloaded WW case and #6 BB's and distance was 100 yards.

Joe

swheeler---I dont expect any problem whatsoever in that I don't agree with them on this one. Not the first time any of us disagreed.

Heck, some of us even got good at it .....

Oldfeller


aka "convicted" internet-actuated house trasher, women slapper, dish breaker and book burner ....


causer of the newly defined term "troll" --


yeah, it really means "one who disagrees with you and you just lost the discussion yet again" but you own the list so you TURN OFF HIS POSTING RIGHTS THEN "ARGUE" WITH HIM ONE-SIDED for a bit.

yeah, I remember ....

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:

.... Restored my Allis Chalmers WD45 for one.
...
Joe

WOW, that's vintage. My first vehicle was an AC WC Flatback 1936 vintage!

Tim,

To boot it's a 1956 model, which was the first year Allis had power steering, and my has it...original Allis Chalmers power steering unit. I rebuilt that too this summer. Amazing how many new parts you can find for these things yet.

Joe

Joe; I just got a chuckle reading this, Eddie Albert driving his tractor and "Green Acres" playing.

Scott,

You know that's funny because that's exactly what my best friend said too. He never imagined me to have a farm.

Joe