Scottie,

Was reading the thread on the fellow that has the 7.7 Arisaka and it's key holing at 20 yards. I had to laugh at the typical stupid responses. Here's where their so though superiority comes in and that is doubting the fellows measuring ability with a set of calipers. Chaos proved the all wrong in saying he has a set that measures down to .0001ths. I highly doubt the fellow is going to be off .002 on that bullet with calipers. Then Chargers reply about the calipers having narrow thin jaws then a mic was hilarious because if anything that would cause them to read smaller not larger. Now some of the more sensible answers were from runfiverun and gulp sic....you. Those rifles do have Metford rifling and they are a little different to get shoot cast and like you said, again sic, would be better to fit the throat. Another silly reply was to paper patch....way too much work and not needed and the poster hasn't even accomplished shooting regular cast yet. Now here's something interesting. I happen to be shooting two rifles last week with cast and Unique. The 30-06 and the 7.65 Argentine. Now we know the 7.7 is going to be inbetween those two in capacity. I was using 15 grains of Unique in both with both 180 grain and 210 grain bullets. Thing is the 06 got 1275 fps and the 7.65 about high 1300's fps. So that means that 7.7 will more then likely be inbetween the two velocity wise. Hell who really knows without a chrono, but I have to wonder if the bullet was stabilized? Doesn't appear to be key holing that bad. Another kind of silly reply was maybe the bore was full of copper. The poster said it was an unissued rifle that still had the arsenal tag on it. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have check...huh? Tell the boys to keep up the good work over there.

You mean you don't know Cheyenne?

Hey now don't start agreeing with me! I always try to give good advice, even if I know it is falling on deaf ears.

And no I don't want you to call me Joe!

Pm me your phone number

Joe you threw my number away, didn't you! I've never had so much PEACE AND QUIET! I can't find a Cheyenne translation, but am sure it is some unmentionable body part, now that's not nice!

Scot, my 7.7 is all matching numbers and it appears that the arsenal put a new barrel on it, or the barrel stayed in pristine condition and the rest of the rifle does indeed show wear. You can see the chrome on the face of the muzzle yet. The bore is mint and my groove diameter is .311. It just struck me the fellow on your forum has a groove of .313. Glad mine isn't that fat. Here's another one for you Scott. I got a Type 44 carbine all matching with dust cover and (get this) the groove on it is dead at .264. How many have you seen or heard of that tight? I lucked out on that. The only rifle I probably won't buy is the 6.5 Carcano. Now I wouldn't mine have the Type 39 for the Japanese made by Carcano.

I have never owned any Jap rifles so don't know how close they kept internal barrel dimensions. I do wish my Swede and Carcano had .264 grooves though. I've got a Carcano 91/41 and it has a groove diameter of .268 and a throat I can put .272 into. I've shot Lees C277-125 and the OF designed 135 gr soup can 7mm bullet after sizing to .270, the cruise missle too. I sent you a picture of it scoped with a side mount and 24x scope years ago, with the Hornady .268 Carcano bullets over H4831 it would shoot moa. Now it just has open sights, someday I will shoot a deer with it, you know roundtoit.

Well there is no doubt that Carcano deliberately made their groove diameter large around the .268 you mentioned, but it's interesting the Type I's they made for the Japanese had much smaller groove and from what I've been told the rifles are well made and shoot very well. The only different that I am aware of is they just have the Carcano action and that is it...same stock, hardware, magazine as the Japanese version.

Bob told me if you can get a Carcano withouth gain twist rifling it may shoot cast okay. Is your's gain twist or not?

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
Well there is no doubt that Carcano deliberately made their groove diameter large around the .268 you mentioned, but it's interesting the Type I's they made for the Japanese had much smaller groove and from what I've been told the rifles are well made and shoot very well. The only different that I am aware of is they just have the Carcano action and that is it...same stock, hardware, magazine as the Japanese version.

Bob told me if you can get a Carcano withouth gain twist rifling it may shoot cast okay. Is your's gain twist or not?

No it has a fixed rate, I've measured several times with tight patch and cleaning rod, always come up with 8 + inch maybe a hair more, like 8 and 1/8 twist. It will shoot cast pretty good, just haven't worked with it enough to get equal to the Hornadys yet, but close with CM at 1700 or so, plenty to whack a deer.

quote:

Originally posted by swheeler:

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
Well there is no doubt that Carcano deliberately made their groove diameter large around the .268 you mentioned, but it's interesting the Type I's they made for the Japanese had much smaller groove and from what I've been told the rifles are well made and shoot very well. The only different that I am aware of is they just have the Carcano action and that is it...same stock, hardware, magazine as the Japanese version.

Bob told me if you can get a Carcano withouth gain twist rifling it may shoot cast okay. Is your's gain twist or not?

No it has a fixed rate, I've measured several times with tight patch and cleaning rod, always come up with 8 + inch maybe a hair more, like 8 and 1/8 twist. It will shoot cast pretty good, just haven't worked with it enough to get equal to the Hornadys yet, but close with CM at 1700 or so, plenty to whack a deer.

Yup, that's probably why it is shooting good for you. Does the chamber have ample room in the neck area to chamber really fat bullets?

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:

quote:

Originally posted by swheeler:

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
Well there is no doubt that Carcano deliberately made their groove diameter large around the .268 you mentioned, but it's interesting the Type I's they made for the Japanese had much smaller groove and from what I've been told the rifles are well made and shoot very well. The only different that I am aware of is they just have the Carcano action and that is it...same stock, hardware, magazine as the Japanese version.

Bob told me if you can get a Carcano withouth gain twist rifling it may shoot cast okay. Is your's gain twist or not?

No it has a fixed rate, I've measured several times with tight patch and cleaning rod, always come up with 8 + inch maybe a hair more, like 8 and 1/8 twist. It will shoot cast pretty good, just haven't worked with it enough to get equal to the Hornadys yet, but close with CM at 1700 or so, plenty to whack a deer.

Yup, that's probably why it is shooting good for you. Does the chamber have ample room in the neck area to chamber really fat bullets?

I've shot .272" in it, but it is close and as a hunting rifle I don't want to have to neck turn after several firings so .270 it is for now. I had a gain twist M39?, never did get acceptable accuracy from it though, bore was pretty rough and pitted. The Carcano's interest me by being "different" and the action is real light weight, strength I don't know about but hanle 160 grain jacketed just fine to 2100 fps, and that would handle most anything I'd point it at.

Well to make a long story short a gun club hired a famous gun guru to blow up a rifle and film it to show the young beginners how dangerous reloading can be if done wrong. To his surprise it was a Carcano that he saw when he arrived. Well we started with over loads of regular powder and nothing. Then to 2400....nothing. Well he thought that's it, full case of Bullseye. Damn if that didn't do it either, but it did jam the bolt to where they had to pound it open. They resorted to C4 which blew it up quite effectively.

Don't know how much truth to that, but let me tell you the Carcano is far stronger then people give it credit for.

quote:

Originally posted:

let me tell you the Carcano is far stronger then people give it credit for.

Of course it is. One of the hard things to get through to many folks, especially those loudest with their nationalistic biases, is that no country intentionally arms their troops with junk (dangerous guns).

They may have to do that late in their wars if they are on the losing side, but no one does it voluntarily.

Carcanos built before each war they served in are actually pretty good little rifles. Perhaps not the stuff of fine sporter donors for today's illuminati, but good little "parabellum" pieces, nonetheless.

I heard when the Italian had the time to build them they used the finest steels and heard that the barrels were bofors steel.

I think the split rear bridge gives people a false impression of weakness.

AC you changed your signature! I really liked the old one better, although the new one isn't too bad.

I liked the old one better too. Didn't know that when I changed it, the AR system would go back and change it on all my earlier posts. So now I can't go back to it, as I don't have a copy of it.

Dang!!

(The new sig is just a play on an old saying the Women's Christian Temperance Union used when lobbying for the pasage of prohibition legislation. They used to say "Drink is the curse of the working class." I believe that like may other rabid do-gooders, they had it bass akwards.)

AC can't you just chang e again?

The poor country girl was a moonshiner, but I loved her still.

smokin j.
thanks for the compliment on the sensible answer.
i got a couple of the 7.7's
i know where there is an italian built 6.5
t-38 it's in good/fair shape but i don't want to mess with it.

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
Scot, my 7.7 is all matching numbers and it appears that the arsenal put a new barrel on it, or the barrel stayed in pristine condition and the rest of the rifle does indeed show wear. You can see the chrome on the face of the muzzle yet. The bore is mint and my groove diameter is .311. It just struck me the fellow on your forum has a groove of .313. Glad mine isn't that fat. Here's another one for you Scott. I got a Type 44 carbine all matching with dust cover and (get this) the groove on it is dead at .264. How many have you seen or heard of that tight? I lucked out on that. The only rifle I probably won't buy is the 6.5 Carcano. Now I wouldn't mine have the Type 39 for the Japanese made by Carcano.

A good M41 Carcano is probably a far better lead bullet rifle than the Type I Carcano made for the Japanese. The M41 has a much better rifling form for cast bullets and it is not a gain twist.