Thinking,I might want to get started in shooting cast bullets, without putting out the expense of molding equipment yet. Where do I start? What brands? What type? And what extra's will I need? I already have the reloading equipment otherwise.

Rifles: 450 Marlin 1895G in 18-1/2" ported, 450 Marlin 1895MR in 22" non ported. 45/70 Marlin Cowboy in 26". I have coming a Winchester 1895 in .405 Win.

Pistols, 44Special/44Magnum Ruger Super Blackhawk w/7-1/2" barrel, and a 480 Ruger Super Redhawk w/7-1/2" barrel.

Phil

If you are talking about store bought cast bullets, there are plenty of them, just pick a vendor that is close to you because shipping is a big part of the cost.

I'd suggest a gas check design. Some guns will shoot plain base OK while others are more picky. It's easier to get good results with a gas check, especially when you are starting out.

When in doubt, go with a big diameter, if you are given a choice in the matter. 0.460" in the 45/70's, 0.414" in the 405, 0.432" in the 44, and 0.477" in the 480.

There are many different designs and it is hard to say if one is better than the other. Just make sure that the crimp-to-nose length is appropriate for your gun. Unlike jacketed bullets, which almost always have the crimp groove located to result in a SAAMI COL, there's quite a variety of crimp-to-nose choices in the cast bullet world.

Store bought cast bullets tend to be disappointing, and good cast bullets cost almost as much as jacketed. You can't just treat a cast bullet as though it were jacketed and get good results. There is considerable learning involved.

You do have a good starting point if you want to try casting your own very cheaply. The Lee 459-405-HB mould and a casting ladle will only cost about $25 and will give you a very accurate bullet for three of your rifles. You can scrounge everything else you need and recover your investment in one casting session.

Because it is a plain base cast bullet, you do need to keep your charges light. 28 grains of 5744 or 30 grains of 4198 is about right in the .45-70.

For cast bullets try http://www.midwayusa.com. They sell several brands.

I'd agree that generally you're better off casting your own, as you can taylor them to your own guns. Many of the commercial cast bullets are too hard, too small, and have pour lubes, and will provide poor accuracy and leading. There are quality cast bullets out there, but they are expensive, especially in the .480. Check the favorite loads forum for my 480 cast bullet loads.

If you think reloading can be expensive equipment-wise, and time consuming, just wait until you really get into bullet casting!!

If what you really want is just good, inexpensive lead bullets to increase the amount of shooting you can do, you might also want to look into shooting commercial copper-washed cast bullets by some firm such as Berry's.

I use Berry's 350 gr. copper-washed bullets in my .45-70 M'86 Winchester with as much as 59.0 grains of VihtaVouri N-135, which is a pretty (VERY) stiff load, and can easily shoot groups which are one ragged hole with the open iron sights at 75 yards. I'm sure it would do the same at 100 if I hadn't lost much of my vision.


Anyway, bought in bulk, they are very useful, quite inexpensive, and work just fine in all my rifles/handguns.

I have over 100 bullet moulds and all the casting stuff, so wouldn't use/recommend the commercial copper-washed cast bullets if they didn't do well for me. I wouldn't use them for a CBA match, but anything else, yeah man!

Greyghost, if you REALLY want to get into casting, then you need to check out this forum: http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com Not but what you can't get some good ideas and advice here, it's just that over there you can find more than 1000 members who ALL cast and have practical experience and advice on every cartridge you can think of and quite a few you never knew existed.

Greyghost, I thought a bit before replying, not that thinking on it would make my reply more intelligent, but rather should I reply at all.

I fail to see the point of buying cast. I'm sure when all the little numbers are added up that it is probably cheaper to buy cast than to cast your own.

But there are things not included in an accountants view of something like this. Bought cast can never teach you the difference between hard and soft bullets and when one is appropriate over the other. Buying cast will never allow you to learn about the silly sublities that make casting an art, like what is too much heat, or too little, or how much cold metal you can add to your pot without having dramitic changes in your bullets or the casting quality of the melt itself. Buying cast will never give you the pleasure of shooting a 2" group with bullets you made, or allow you to shake your head when the guy next to you can't shoot 2" whit jacketed while you're shooting 1" and less. Buying cast will never give you the satisfaction of bring home meat with a bullet you made. I have difficulty these days with the idea of hunting with jacketed; cast has more than served me well, is perfectly suited to the hunting I do, and I can shoot literally as much as I want of the same loads I hunt with. It would have been impossible to shoot over 300 loads using jacketed bullets for practice.

Casting probably aint' for everyone. But if you are considering it, then for the same cost of a box of 500 cast bullets and shipping, you can get a mold, ladle a small pot, scrounge up some WW, fire up a Coleman stove and make some up. Lee Liquid Alox will lube up your bullets just fine without the need for extra equipment.

So, with each order for bullets you make, add a peice of casting equipment to the list and begin paying yourself.

My cost for over 3000 rounds last year casting my own, using milsurp powders, primers and gas checks came to about 5 cents a pop. You can't shoot East Europe surplus for that, and shooting milsurp ammo in banged up milsurp rifle is nothing like shooting the same amount in your hunting arms.

So, do think on it, and don't look to just the bean counting, for as is said on the telly, "Bullet Mold $40.00, Electric Melting Pot $40,00, Gas Checks $17.00, Showing up your buddies at the range with bullets made by your own hand.... Priceless!"

I may not speak for majority but it is not about what you can or cannot buy. It is about what you can MAKE. You are in complete control of your destiny (accuracy, terminal ballistics) when casting your own. You plan on saving money casting? Not in the short term but then again it is about satisfaction. I'll guarantee you will be prouder than anyone you know when you get some good groups out of the bullets you cast or if you harvest an animal with your bullets... Much more satisfaction.

Catmandu

I agree 100% about the satisfaction of making your own bullets and customizing the design and diameter to fit your needs, however, someone is keeping a lot of commercial casters in business.

I started out shooting store bought cast because I was too poor to buy casting equipment (that was before there were mail order reloading outfits so all casting equipment had to be special ordered by a local gunstore). The undersize bullets leaded like crazy in my oversize throats, but I shot them anyway because I couldn't afford jacketed bullets. Eventually I worked up the courage to get into the casting game and have been hooked ever since.

I bought my first four cavity mould about 20 years ago, because the commercial cast I had purchased wouldn't stay on a pie plate at 50'. (They were put out by Marksman Bullet Company. I have told the story in another thread...)

20 years, and upwards of 70 moulds later, I have at least one mould that will cast for anything I own now or ever hope to own, and in most cases have duplicates. What I would add to all that has been said above is this: buy the best you can afford. You get what you pay for.

Steel blocks are my preference by a large margin. Aluminum just gets too hot to cast any real large number of bullets, as far as I am concerned, likewise brass. Stay with the well-known mould makers, and pick up the no longer produced blocks when you can. Lyman moulds are good, but I think RCBS and SAECO are better. (And I believe the last two are just about interchangeable.)

And ask, ask, ask. We all will help when we can. You will have to separate fact from opinion sometimes, and there will be disagreements, and different experiences. But the cast bullet bunch is a genuinely great bunch of folks that want to help.

Welcome to the world of those that "roll their own". Jump in with both feet, and don't look back!!

I look at casting have the same benefits as handloading. If you have a very precisely built rifle, it'll tend to shoot factory ammo as well as you can handload it, but most factory guns respond well to handloads taylored to the gun.

With casting, a precisely made ie cast friendly gun will often shoot commercial cast as well as you can cast them, but most guns will require the bullets to be taylored to their dimensions, and thats where casting, sizing and lubing your own comes into it's own. Also, alot of commercial cast bullets are too hard, too small, and have lubes that do a good job of staying in the lube groove when shipped, but don't do a great job of lubing the bullet in your bore.

While I really like a good steel or cast iron mold, I've yet to have a problem getting good bullets from aluminum molds, including the very economical Lee molds. Casting two molds together, ie alternating molds, provides sufficient time for the molds to cool, and using Bruce's technique of a wet shop towel to cool the mold will allow one to produce large quantities of bullets.

I've mentioned this beofre about cast bullets, but I guess it is worth mentioning once more. The word is freedom. If you have a supply of powder and primers and a mold that works well with your firearm, consider this. What if by some unforseen occurance one cannot buy bullets, brass, primer, powder and especially loaded factory ammo? What do you do then.
If one has a supply of say Unique or #2400 powder, a good mold and supply of bullet metal, say wheel weights and some linotype to make up a proper alloy, one could continue to hunt or just even shoot a few rounds on occasion.
Think it can't happen? It did during World War Two, Only farmers could buy from a limited supply of .22LR for vermin control and ranchers a limited supply of 30-30 ammo for predator control. That is a matter of historical fact.
Besides, it's fun.
Paul B.

If I had to buy any type of boolits, I could not do much shooting being on a fixed income. The cost of a primer and a little powder along with free boolits makes it as cheap as a .22 and I get 100% better accuracy then a store bought boolit.

Have a look at Beartooth bullets, lots of product and knowledge.

quote:

Originally posted by Greyghost:
Thinking,I might want to get started in shooting cast bullets, without putting out the expense of molding equipment yet. Where do I start? What brands? What type? And what extra's will I need? I already have the reloading equipment otherwise.

Rifles: 450 Marlin 1895G in 18-1/2" ported, 450 Marlin 1895MR in 22" non ported. 45/70 Marlin Cowboy in 26". I have coming a Winchester 1895 in .405 Win.

Pistols, 44Special/44Magnum Ruger Super Blackhawk w/7-1/2" barrel, and a 480 Ruger Super Redhawk w/7-1/2" barrel.

Phil

In addition to the equipment you have now, in order to use cast bullets you will need an expander plug for your cartridges that will allow you to put a slight bell on the case mouth in order to start the cast bullet into the case without cutting into the soft lead of the bullet shank.

Most handgun cartridge dies already have an expander plug that will do this, but most rifle cartridges (at least the botlleneck ones) do not. For these, you'll need something like the Lyman "M" die in the appropriate calibers.

Get a copy of Veral Smith's (Lead Bullet Technologies) handbook called "Jacketed Velocities with Cast Bullets". This guy knows more about cast bullets thasn any of us will ever know!!

You can forego the expander plug if you use a bridge reamer or one of Lymans VLD reamers to put a gentle chamfer on the case mouth. The advantage of the chamfer is it doesn't work the case the way belling does, and doesn't have to be done every time you load the case.

Careful reaming does help seating a lot, as long as the neck has been properly expanded. Sometimes the two terms "expanding" and "belling" are confused. Expanding happens in the sizing process with a bottle neck case by means of a bulge or button on the decapping rod above the decapping pin. Belling opens up just the mouth of the case to make seating of lead projectiles easier without shaving the base and side of the boolit, and they can also help the seating of jacketed bullets in straight wall cases. Most rifle dies are set up for jacketed bullets and resize the case neck too small, then do not expand it enough to handle a boolit .002 or .003 above groove diameter necessary for decent accuracy. This leads to a tendency to bell them with an M or UEx die too much and shortens the working life of the brass considerably. Many have better results with opening up the neck of the sizing die by honing it and replacing the expander with a larger one that better fits the boolit in question, i.e. in .30 cal with a .310, .311, or .312 expander depending on what diameter shoots best out of the particular rifle.

Just today, I was sort of tied to the telephone, waiting for a call. Weather was beautiful, and I should have been at the range, "making empties".

Instead, I fired up my RCBS furnace and declared it was ".45-70 day". Over a period of about five hours, I cast 400 457406 (RN gaschecked 480-grain), 450 457122 Gould 338-grain hollowpoints, and several hundred 457483 (385-grain RNGC). All were cast from single-cavity moulds.

For the tiny investment of five hours and some electricity, I have over a thousand good bullets for my Shiloh. In addition, this is NOT labor! It's actually entertainment and recreation, at least in my life. Casting is a way for me to widen my enjoyment of the shooting/handloading hobby, allows me an incredible amount of shooting for peanuts, and also retains my independence of commercial suppliers, given a reasonable number of primers and some powder.

Casting has also brought me a legion of friends, many of whom I will never meet, but also many that I HAVE met, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

All sound advice !

quote:

Originally posted by Bren Mk1: :::: Instead, I fired up my RCBS furnace and declared it was ".45-70 day". Over a period of about five hours, I cast 400 457406 (RN gaschecked 480-grain), 450 457122 Gould 338-grain hollowpoints, and several hundred 457483 (385-grain RNGC). All were cast from single-cavity moulds. ::: Casting has also brought me a legion of friends, many of whom I will never meet, but also many that I HAVE met, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

OK. A lot of good posts here, and this is one that caught my attention.

Thanks for all the info guys.

I shoot many thousands of pistol ammo a yr. Sometimes 2-3000 a week when I'm in the mood.

Primers $15/1000, powder $60-110/8lbs. Brass is picked up at the range IF I need more. Figure the cost there.

I want production when I'm casting as I can't sit for days on hand using a single or double so I buy only Lee 6 cavity molds w/handles from either Midway, or Lock Stock & barrel, cheaper than dirt etc. About $50 per mold w/handles.

I have two ProPot IV melters, used one for about 25yrs and sent it in for rebuild 4 yrs ago. Came back like new, cost was $13. The other one is brand new and never been used yet. Just for backup in case.

I cast til I can't stand to sit there anylonger. Usually 3-4 hours, or until I have a gallon can filled in the 5 gallon bucket of water I drop them into.

For lead, I have salvaged several tons of bullet scrap from the local pistol range.
This is hard enough I've never seen a sign of leading using Lee Alox. Many times I'll shoot 3-5000 or more thru a pistol without even patching the bore even once. Can't beat that.

One thing I learned the hard way long ago. You've got to keep the velocity down to about 1600fps max. Most of my pistol loads run about 750-900fps. That's a big reason they don't lead my bores.

For my mostly just plinking and playing or friendly shooting matches. It's more than good enough at a price I can afford.

Nearly always use Red Dot at 4-5gr, or less. I even use this load for '06, or other rifle practice ammo with cast bullets. Sure great stuff for teaching the women and kids how to shoot the big guns without hurting them.

George