anybody using Varget to drive 400-450 grain Gas Checked cast to 1500-1900 fps?
Filler yes or no?
Primer?
thanks!

Several folks over an Cast Boolits are doing it. At least I think they use Varget. I get the impression that the 458 is an ideal cast and paper patch cartridge.

From Hodgdon (Which you have probably looked at).
450 GR. SFT SP Hodgdon Varget .458" 3.340" 70.0 2083 34,200 CUP

That makes for a low enough pressure and a full case with a cast bullet. I see that the 45/70 uses Varget at 18,600 CUP as a starting load.

I use Varget for my .458 Lott and .45-70 with cast bullets and I like the results I get. My load in the Lott with a 500gr cast bullet with gas check is just a few grains less than my full tilt load with 500gr soft point ammo.

I've not used any filler with Varget, accuracy seems best when the case is 100% full but still good with less than full capacity.

I appreciate it gentlemen. I have sure liked Varget in the 35 Whelen for full loads jacketed bullets.
I have used 4198 and 3031 with some 405 Remington Jackets on lighter loads. I used filler on the 4198 as I did get some hang fires and even one squib without it. Light loads in big cases are a bit of a challange but I have some really nice R45-405-FN from Glenhill bullets that I need a load for. I would like around 1700 FPS. I have a theoratical question for you all: In a straight case like the 458 and 45-70, does reducing case capacity with a Dacron filler tamped down tightly on the powder charge create a new case "capacity" for powder combustion closer to the 45-70 than the original 458? My mind says it would thus we see the pressure rise as is observed but I don't know.

I loaded 10 rounds with the 425 Glenhill at 3.040 which is mouth of case at the bottom of the top driving band, 50 grains of Varget, filled case with Dacron, lit it with a CCI 250 and shot them over the truck hood at 75 yards. 3/4 to 1" for 3 shots after the first three with a couple of small out of the group flyers that could be about anything at this point including my hold. I had to change aiming point as they were shooting 6 inches higher than I was sighted for. Mild load but don't have a clue on FPS. Loaded some more and will give it a test on Whitetail in couple of months!

Varget is one of those powders like 3031 and 4759 that seem to be so accurate and versatile it is hard to believe.
Work with it enough and the stuff can do about anything.
I have a 10" MOA in 7 BR that refused to shoot a 120 gr bullet for deer, shotgun for sure because the twist is for heavy silhouette bullets. I called Hodgdon and they told me Varget would not work. I played with it anyway and the 120 gr bullet will do 1/2" or less at 50 yards with 2175 fps. I also use it in the 10" 7R.
For as slow as it is it actually burned clean with accuracy in a 10" 45-70 BFR.
I have never seen a powder like it, amazing stuff.
By the way it is my powder of choice in my 6.5 Swede too.

That's interesting! I got very pleasing accuracy with Varget (we get it as AR2208) in my 303 Brit with 225gr cast bullets at around 1800fps. But in the Brit there is a little too much air space so I have switched to H4350 (AR2209). Bur on a slow powder burning clean, I have been told that H4350 works in a 30-30 with 170gr bullets, producing around 1900fps with good accuracy. Varget seems to be listed as suitable for more calibers than any other and with a broader peak pressure range than any other too. It also seems to be the powder that produces peak performance in a greater number of calibers.

Varget (2208) certainly gives high velocities and in my 404 with a HT 90/10 ww/lino GC 370gn bullet driven by 80gn gives me 2481fps although accuracy is better with a straight lino 350gn GC bullet over 74gn at 2363fps.
Best accuracy, however, is with the lino bullet at 1900fps over 63gn H4350 (2209) for a .330 with the aperture at 55 yds.

Von Gruff.

I am going to try and get a solid hold at my 125 yards tomorrow and see how they do in the sunlight and low wind I hope... I quit bench shooting years ago because I am lousy at it and never really had a SOLID bench. I still shoot with a standing bench sometimes and most often sitting with Sticks and a back rest. I have better results, I think I am actually better on the trigger on sticks, that way and I hunt that way a lot so it works for me. Will let you know how it goes.

I tried to get solid on the standing bench today and shot 10. I figured 5 to foul the clean barrel and 5 to score. First three a bit high and right of the bull with two of them in 1.5 inches and one right. Second 3 printed two high, changed hold on forearm, remember I said I am lousy at the bench, and one back down in the group. Last three, put two in the edge of the bull and 1 in the group. Shot last one into the group. 2.5 power scope with a diamond X and the group was just under 2 inches and the high 2 were 1" left and additional 1.5" high. Two in the bull were .5 " left and 1" lower. Move the bulls up an inch and they are in the "group." Anyway: 5 in about 2 inches and the others as described. I suppose I can kill a whitetail in heavy cover with it.
Question: any concern about seating the cast bullets out further exposing one or two grooves full of lube? I am sure I have the room in the magazine and throat and it probably would help accuracy but with a "hunting" load, it seems to me to be not a great idea to leave the grease out there to collect what and not.
dmw

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Question: any concern about seating the cast bullets out further exposing one or two grooves full of lube? I am sure I have the room in the magazine and throat and it probably would help accuracy but with a "hunting" load, it seems to me to be not a great idea to leave the grease out there to collect what and not.
dmw

There is no problem other than what you have suguested in that dust etc could be a problem. Having said that, whether you hunt with one in the chamber and the safety on or you leave the bolt closed on an empty chamber should result in the same thing, and that is that any ammo in the rifle is protected from the usual dust and debrie. It is carrying the backup rounds that is the concern and if you are a hunter then what is in the rifle should be enough to get the job done and any backup ammo would be in a closed holder either in pocket, belt, day-pack or wherever you carry your spares..
Go ahead and seat the bullet out as long as your magazine or chamber will allow. Cast bullets are best when they are loaded to just engage with the riflling as this gives them the best possible start. Cast bullet design has a lot to do with what discipline they are best suited for, and I designed my own bullet for my 404 so that it could be loaded to same OAL as jacketed but with the bore-riding nose with a ogive to just engage rifling and this has proved to be very accurate in two different rifles.

You can see in the pic my bullet is lubed and GC against the plain based bullet which would have the same problem as you are talking about. This is a selection of loaded bullets and the two cast bullets are indicative of what a slight difference in nose design and length will do to OAL, land engagement, and cocsequently, accuracy.Again the two cast bullets are the centre two with my desigh 3 from left.



Von Gruff.

Thanks Von Gruff. I have shot many thousand cast in handguns but this is my first Rodeo with a centerfire Rifle cast. I shot the .458 at 225 yards today and two were good, 2.5 inches and one vertical, another 2 inches high, each 3 shot group. I had a poor aiming point and a 2.5 x etc. so I am quick to blame myself. I am sure that I can fill the OAL of the Magazine and still not reach the riflings in this .458 because that is the case with Jacketed bullets in this gun but I am going to try to fill the Magazine as you suggest. Agreed on the hunter notations; I rarely shoot twice on deer as I like to be sure of my shot.
I really like your GC bullet. I have also started shooting cast in a 1950's Springfiled 03 in 35 Whelen and am using a 245 Cast from Glenhill. He also makes a 290 that looks a lot like your bullet. I have the 245's shooting well though and with Kansas running a real shortage of lion and Cape Buffalo, tragic as it is, I will stay with the 245s for a while. I was tempted on last order though...but I don't know if my old gun is fast enough twist to stablize them at slower speeds. Also I am using AA 2015 in the Whelen and there is no more to be had around here. I have about 1/3 of a pound left then it's on to trying TAC.
Best regards,
dmw

Has anyone here tried AA5744 in the .458 with cast bullets?