I have just started loading cast bullets for my 44 magnum revolver. I loaded 50 rounds of 240 grain swc pre-lubed hard cast bullets. I used 11 grains of unique and have experienced heavy leading after 10 rounds. I need some advice please.

Roger, how many jacketed round do you have through this gun? Did you clean and remove all the copper out of the barrel. These are some of the first things to look at.

The gun has had 175 rounds of factory ammunition fired . These are the first cast bullets ever fired. The bore is clean. I am not sure if the problem is in the bullet lube or the bullet shape on the base. The bullet has a small taper on the base. The powder charge of 11 grains of unique should not be enough to lead the barrel. The other option that i am looking at is, I bought the bullets from a guy going out of loading, I do not know how old the bullets are and they were pre lubed with synthetic lube. Some of the fired bullets still have some lubed hardeden in the groove.

If the gun in question is a Ruger SS gun, they take a good 300 rounds of jacketed bullet to help smooth out the bore. Have you slugged the barrel and cylinders to see what diameter they are? Mic the bullets and see what diameter the are. If they are under .430 that could be part of the issue. Undersized bullet will lead like soft bullets. That bring up the next question, can you scratch these bullet's with your finger nail? Can you find out what lead alloy they are made of?

Another thing to try and that is find a shop that has bullets from cast performance. There gas check bullets shoot well. To have cast bullet shipped coast an arm and leg.

Please feel free to pm me and I will do what I can to help.

The new Post Office flat rate boxes have changed that. For under $8, you can ship something like 60 # in the little boxes they supply.

Roger..Your problem is all too common with mass producted cast bullets. I am not going to let this slide into a long lecture about why, just let me say your problems stem from.

1. An alloy too hard for the pressure of your load.
2. A lube that is worthless
3. The bevel base of your bullets

The fix is to use a non-bevel plain base bullet, with a good lube and a softer alloy.

If you don't want to cast your own, go to Dry Creek Bullet Works and they can fix you up with the correct bullets.

I would also recommend droping the charge to 10/Unique. This will give a good mid-power load with about 1.1K fps. If you want to drive a bullet faster, you will be better off with 2400, AA9 or LilGun powders.

Again, I am not going to get into the why, just the how. Frankly I am getting tired to trying to run a sixgun cast bullet shool on the internet. Precious few people seem interested in learning.

I would like to express my thanks to all of you who took the time to try to help a beginner. I really do appreciate the help. I plan to buy some books on cast shooting soon. Again, thanks to all.

Roger Keezer---For a book on cast bullets,I would say whatever else you might get,get A Lyman Reloading manual. It not only has data,but has lots of information. If you shoot much,I'd highly recommend taking the plunge and get your own casting equipment. My experience with hard lubes is zilch. Having always done my own,and never having a lube heater,I have never used hard lubes. Before I made a batch of Felix World Famous Bullet Lube--which I like the best,I had used Javalina and a few other softer lubes. Never had a leading problem.

I'm certainly not an expert, but my experience has been that commerical bullets lead the barrel, while those I cast do not. I too have dug bullets out of the berm that still retained that hard blue lube. I use Lee stick Alox and leading isn't an issue at all.

Rick

Any good lube will still be in the grease groove(s) of a spent bullet when it is dug up...

Doubless, exactly the opposite has been my general experience from over 30 years of casting and shooting cast boolits. If the lube is still on the boolit, it didn't do any work. That said, if you have a specific application that works, great.

Chargar, I feel your pain. All you can do is lead them to the fountain....

I have a pair of stainless Bisley Vaqueros. One leads in the throat a little at 4 to 5 o'clock. I've always though that it was a timing issue. It shoots good though. In fact we had my birthday party yesterday and daughters, SILs, grandkids -- everyone -- took turns shooting them and some .357s. Hundreds of rounds through each gun. Stopped halfway through to check the Bisleys for leading and there was none. Combination different boolit designs, some with checks, mostly not, and all with Felix lube. Had a really good time busting beer cans, paper targets and clay birds. Everyone said gotta do it again Memorial Day. Okay, says I. Looks like the press is gonna get a workout. sundog

Let me try to clarify what I meant: all of us know that the lube is forced out of the groove when the bullet is compressed by the gas column, and that compression forces the lube out of the bullet and into the barrel. There is typically more lube in the grease groove than is needed by the barrel/bullet. What I was trying to say is that if there is no lube in the spent bullet groove, the spinning of the bullet slung the "grease' out of the groove or grooves. The only way to get all the grease out of a groove, assuming it is the right kind of lube, is to completely collapse the lube groove, and most commercial bullets are too hard for that to happen.
I, too, have dug up spent bullets with no lube on them, but they also looked just like they had been cast and left un-lubed. (Okay, they had the lands and grooves marks on them, but otherwise looked like they were unfired.) That tells me they were too hard and the lube wasn't going to work anyway, because it was never going to get out of the groove. It also told me the lube wasn't gripping the lead, and a lot of it was proably falling off in the bullet box, too.
Does that make more sense, or am I still way off base?

Doubless, I don't think you're "way off base," but I think we need to distinguish between certain rifle bullets, namely "lube intensive" Loverin designs v. bore-riders, e.g., many of Lee's designs v. pistol CB's. Those recovered lubeless (or nearly so) bullets offer only a partial picture of lube behavior since we don't know (a) how accurate they were; or (b) whether or not they leaded the bore. The latter may also indicate excessive pressure relative to alloy strength rather than lube failure.

Sundog, Isn't it also possible that a recovered rifle CB with lube on it had too much lube on it to begin with, e.g. a Loverin v. Saeco RG-4? or the shallow-grooved Lee bore riders? ...Maven

all bevel base bullets will lead your barrel,horse feathers!.
I use alot of the magma moulds which most are BB bullets and leading isn't a problem.
my 405 gr BB in a 45/70 marlin was hiting 1400 fps with no problems.
1200 fps out of my smith 44 with the magma 240 BB swc is one of the most accurate loads todate.
proper alloy,good lube and sized right to your firearm BB bullets are a good accurate bullet.
pete

I have to agree on the BB not being an absolute cause of leading. I have fired many hundreds of rounds of the Lee 357-158-RF at1200-1450 fps from my rifle without leading. These speeds are not the most accurate for the bullet, it really likes 900-950 fps, but the higher velocities definately did not cause leading. I shoothe Lee 375-250 RF at similar speeds and leading is no issue.

May as well jump into the fracas.
I use LBT Blue, have used Paco Kelly's Apache Blue, still have some sticks of MicroLube, have used the various Alox lubes encluding Lee's tumble lube. (The one lube I saw mentioned in the Fouling Shot that I want to try is Preparation H. Seems the hemmoeroids in the political board use it by the bucket, as hair tonic and there's a shortage.)
They all work well.
The one thing that all of my cast cast bullets have in common, is proper sizing. . 3585 or .359 for 38 Spec or 357 mag, .452 for 45 acp and 45 auto rim, .454 for 45 Colt, .430 for 44 Spec and Mag, .459 or .460 for 45-70, .3785 for 375 Whelen, .311 or .312 for 30-06 or 308, .244 for 243.
Flat base, bevel base, gas checked all work fine if the bullet is the correct size.
Jim

Maven, I suspect so. Some boolit designs I use do not get all grooves filled. Excellent accuracy and no leading. One that comes to mind is the Ly 150 grainer for the Swede. I found that the forward most groove did not need lube at the velocity I was shooting, 1630 fps, BHn 14, and accuracy is superb.

Doubless, seeing no lube on my recovered boolits, as well as a well defined, but not heavy lube star on the crown is my preferred state. Some boolits can carry too much lube and I believe that the source of some flyers can be lube purging, whether by directly having too much lube in the barrel and thus beinging pushed out or the boolit still carrying too much after clearing the muzzle and then slinging it off. Proper boolit sizing can do much for minimizing lube irregularities.

I also believe that the lube a boolit carries can have more affect on the next shoot than that boolit itself, which depends on lube deposited in the bore on the preceding shot. Based on all of this, my preference is for launching a boolit with no lube left on it. That said, depending on caliber, boolit size, fit, and hardness/resilience, velocity, pressure curve, and environmental conditions, lubes can be adjusted for optimal performance. It just seems like if all the lube is still on the boolit when it is recovered, what was it doing during the time it was needed for lubing? sundog

One of the fellers over on Cast Boolits Board posted this link. Very good article to describe the dynamics, and certainly worth the time to read. sundog

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/fryxell/lube.htm