I Shoot a custom 405 Grain paper patched pure lead bullet out of my 45-70 and have taken deer, hogs, and a couple of cattle. The size of the 45 bullet will cleanly drop a whitetail in it's tracks even with no expansion. I use a 300 grain LNFP out of water quinched wheel weights in my 44 Mag at 1100 fps on deer and hogs. They generally don't take but a couple of steps, I suspect your 45-70 will do the same.
Posts: 273 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 24 May 2002
I have been using WW for years. No problems at all. I shoot straight WW in my 45-70's(4 of them), 44 magnums(3 of them), 358 Wincheser, and some other assorted rifles. I have shot quite a few deer and a whole bunch of ground hog's with cast bullets from straight WW. Performance was great.
I do not argue with the caster's who have all kinds of mixtures and concoctions for their alloy. I say do your own thing. I just never found special alloy's, wads, and fillers as a necessary evil. Tom.
I've pushed a 410 gr. cast at 17bhn at 1750 ft using Lars Red for lube on a regular basis out of a Ruger #1 without any leading. With a wide meplat it is as good as soft lead. The choice is a matter of preference.
Have hunted my Searcy .470 NE DR with 500 gr bullets cast in WW and lubed with Carnauba Red. Pretty much the same as a hot 45-70. Bullet has a large meplat. Bullet made with a custom mold from Ballisti-cast.
Kills deer just fine.
My suggestion is that you find an accurate load with a bullet weighing between 400 and 450 grains having a wide meplat ... and go hunting!
Mike
-------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com
I have a Browning 1886 (Winchester copy) carbine. I use the 405 gr RCBS cast with WW's, which come out to about 420 gr. Haven't lost or trailed a deer I've shot with it yet. I've recovered one bullet in all the deer that I've shot with it and it showed some really nice expansion. WW's are pretty good so I say go for it.
Head0001 Take me home West Virgina Wow is that a nice gun and setting!!! Is that a rolling block? Hey I use wheel weights too 44 mag 45 Auto 41 mag 30 30 6.5 amd 8mm mMauser 30 carbine they work great. Problem is its getting hard to find them . Still have a lot in the garage, How bout you guys having a problem? now they are making them out of zink and steel. Good casting from yall from Kentucky! My favorite lube is Rooster Red Zambini its fairly hard but no mess need a heater .
Posts: 170 | Location: ky | Registered: 02 September 2007
I shot a small two point muledeer with my 38-55 with wheelweights.It was a texas heart shot and went all the way threw the deer and exited at the base of the neck.He never took a step.
Current wheel weights will work just fine. Wheel weights from an earlier period (1970s) were harder that an IRS tax collector's heart. I still have about 50 pounds of that early stuff. I've used straight wheel weights on deer from the 30-30 and out of 17 deer, all either died on the spot or only moved a short distance. I once loaded up some of the early Lee 500 gr. bullets with the 1970s wheel weights in the Marlin New Model 1895, the forst one with the buttplate designed by the Marquis de Sade to 1550 FPS. Damned gun killed at both ends. I loaned the gun and load to a buddy who was going to do a dark timber elk hunt. Seems like when he jumped the elk, he had to shoot it up the tail pipe, but it dropped on the spot. The bullet passed all the way through the elk coming to a stop against the skin showing as a bulge in the skin. He recovered the bullet and gave it to me. it was in such good shape that you could replace the lube and load it and shoot it again, literally a true solid. Current wheel weights do not have as much good stuff in the alloy and today are not as hard as what we were shooting back then. The batch I still have has a BHN reading of 15/16 on my LBT scale after age hardening. (No heat treating, just air cooled.) Current wheel weights that I have run about 8 on the BHN scale when cast and age hardened to 12 on the scale. it was the latter that I used for der in the 30-30. No bullets were recovered. Paul B.
Posts: 2814 | Location: Tucson AZ USA | Registered: 11 May 2001
I don't know about that Joe, Lloyd and I could be just thinking of past years. Don't you know PETA has been issuing deer body armor? I heard that was the case and why some guys need those humongous magnums to kill little deers with! And look at all those hand cannons now with 300-450 gr bullets ever since Ross Seifried went down under and killed that water buffalo with that custom Ruger .45 Colt with 300 gr bullets. Didn't you realise whitetails read that article and now think they are bad asses like water buffalo? Seems deer just laugh at a .44 magnum with a classic 250 gr Keith load anymore, or so we're constantly told on these forums. So to answer ho, maybe that WW alloy isn't "hard enough", eh? After all it might just glance off the "boss" of a charging whitetail!
Ok ho, let me get back to reality; current WWs (I like to add about 2% tin to make them cast better with big bullets and it doesn't harden them appreciably) will be just fine in a FB bullet up to 1500 fps or so. If you go above that (you certainly can with a #1) then with a GC they are accurate up through 1800-1900+ fps or depending on how much your shoulder can take.
Larry Gibson
Posts: 1489 | Location: University Place, WA | Registered: 18 October 2005
Originally posted by Larry Gibson: I don't know about that Joe, Lloyd and I could be just thinking of past years. Don't you know PETA has been issuing deer body armor? I heard that was the case and why some guys need those humongous magnums to kill little deers with! And look at all those hand cannons now with 300-450 gr bullets ever since Ross Seifried went down under and killed that water buffalo with that custom Ruger .45 Colt with 300 gr bullets. Didn't you realise whitetails read that article and now think they are bad asses like water buffalo? Seems deer just laugh at a .44 magnum with a classic 250 gr Keith load anymore, or so we're constantly told on these forums. So to answer ho, maybe that WW alloy isn't "hard enough", eh? After all it might just glance off the "boss" of a charging whitetail!
Ok ho, let me get back to reality; current WWs (I like to add about 2% tin to make them cast better with big bullets and it doesn't harden them appreciably) will be just fine in a FB bullet up to 1500 fps or so. If you go above that (you certainly can with a #1) then with a GC they are accurate up through 1800-1900+ fps or depending on how much your shoulder can take.
Larry Gibson
Larry, I like how the 45-70 just whacks them down. No trailing especially in thick back East woods. Don't have to load it hot to where it kills your shoulder. Just a real fun round to hunt with.
Yes Joe, the 45-70 "lets a lot of air in and a lot of blood out!" I killed 2 deer with one shot once (didn't see the other one standing directly behind the first and along side) with my Siamese Mauser. Load was only the 457483 (400 gr GC when cast of WWs) over 45 gr of 4895 (old Lyman max load for '86 Winchesters). Dropped 'em both right in their tracks!
Larry Gibson
Posts: 1489 | Location: University Place, WA | Registered: 18 October 2005
Originally posted by Larry Gibson: Yes Joe, the 45-70 "lets a lot of air in and a lot of blood out!" I killed 2 deer with one shot once (didn't see the other one standing directly behind the first and along side) with my Siamese Mauser. Load was only the 457483 (400 gr GC when cast of WWs) over 45 gr of 4895 (old Lyman max load for '86 Winchesters). Dropped 'em both right in their tracks!
Larry Gibson
Larry, the first load for my Brownchester 1886 carbine pushed that 405 gr RCBS to 1850 fps and was very accurate. I soon dropped it to 1450 fps as the upper load really wasn't needed and that damn steel crescent buttplate stings.
