what is a stoner 350gr HC GC bullet?? Sounds like the 330gr HP gould that lyman sells.. The Lyman just looks like it could use a GC to really make it work with heavyer loads???

Hi to all! I would like to hear from anyone who has taken ( or attempted to take ) deer (or larger game) with cast bullets. Range, caliber,equipment, performance, thoughts, suggestions, etc. I am especially interested in .357, 45 long colt, and 30/30. But I would read all the others! Thanks in advance! Dale

Dale, one of the grandsons took a small doe a couple of years ago with a 31141 in a Marlin 30-30. Shot was a little off and the doe ran about 60 yards, part way right straight at him, and piled up. Exit wound took out about two inch chunk of rib. The boolit was range scrap loaded over a light charge of 4227 so he could handle the recoil. A better shot prolly would have anchored her, but the lad did well. sundog

I've taken about 25 deer with cast bullets in the 30-30. Bullets used were Lyman's #311291, and RCBS #30-180-FN.A few dropped on the spot, several ran as far as 100 yard, but most were recovered within 35 yards. #311291 was loaded to about 2000 FPS IE, a full power load. The RCBS bullet at 1950 FPS. It's a good idea to try to not hit major bones as meat destruction can be major. Bullets were all cast from wheel weight metal. Most shot were anywhere from 25 yards to 75 yards. Only a very few were as far as 100 yards.
The area where I hunted was brushy enough that long shots were not the rule.
Paul B.

I've taken deer with .44 magnum, .45-70, 6.5X55, .308, and .358. They all worked just fine.

The last deer I shot was with a 340 grain cast bullet in a 45-70. The velocity was about 1500 and the range was about 75yds. The shot centered one lung, got part of the other and broke a rib going out. The deer slowly walked about 30 yds.,stood there with its head down for about 10 seconds, then fell over. The deer didn't go far,and died within a minute so I can't complain. Other deer I have shot with cast bullets have reacted about the same, although some have gone 70-80 yards. I only use 35 and larger caliber rifles with cast bullets.

What do you want to hear specifically? Can it be done? Of course. thousands do it every year. I shot.... 3-4 animals this year, deer, elk, antelope, whatever. Cast bullets will kill whatever you want to kill. At least, I don't have any use for copper clad subsitutes.

Sounds like you are interested in slowish bullets, which is where they shine. Try paper patching if you would like. You can use softer lead at higher velocities and yet be less likely to fragment on impact. Use real gunpowder or smokeless if you must.

Brent

I shot a doe last year with my 45-70 guide gun and stoner
350gr HC GC bullets with a near max load of reloader 7.
Doe was shot at 15yds from my tree stand and she hit the ground like a lightning bolt struck her.Shot was put thru the front shoulder.My new deer load is a cast performance 420gr WLNGC bullet with IMR-4198.For my 1894 44Mag i use cast performance 300gr WFNGC bullets and W296.
http://www.castperformance.com/?uid=170&page=1658

This fall I plan on using a 200 grain RCBS cast bullet on deer. I will shoot either my Marlin 35 Rem. or my T/C Contender in 357 Max. Either way I should score on a fat doe or nice buck.

The stoner 350gr hardcast gas checked bullet is made by
Mr.Stoner in Alaska.His bullets are great in my 45-70 guide gun.stoner is on the right.460 cp on left.

This past season I shot a whitetail buck with a 30-40 loaded with a 180 RN @1800fps. The shot was 80 yards and hit him high & rear in the chest,down he went. I reloaded again and watched him for 2 min., up he came, shot him again thru the sholders and down he goes again. 2 min later he's tring to crawl away, the next shot in the neck did him in. Upon cleaning him, the second two shots were not needed as his lungs were a mess. This was my first deer with cast bullets so I had nothing to compare it with, but like the man said...if you put a leak in him, he's done. Had I waited him out, I don't think he would have gotten very far.
The cast bullet works, but it's a different kill then I've ever experienced, there is NO shock effect at all. I might even try them again next year........but that .243 is nice!

I always take out the front shoulder with hardcast bullets.I don't want my deer running away.I hunt 50yds from edge of 40 acres.There isn't that much meat on a front shoulder anyhow.The cast bullet doesn't expand,just sails right on thru.

Reloader man - I believe carpetman has tried out the .243, and didn't have all that good of results on deer. I don't believe the frontal mass and weight are sufficient. I would place the 6.5 at minimum for deer. I've used these, and they worked well when properly placed.

Yes, I have to agree with the flat point for a better hunting bullet, I have a 150gr FP,but unfortunately I went with the 180gr thinking more weight was the better of my choices.Hummmmmm......maybe next year.

DE, little is written about the history of bullets as such, it would I think make for some very interesting reading, as well as give us a better understanding of how we have come to be where we are.

Loosely, jacketed bullets did not come into being untill the common use of smokeless powders. This would be circa 1890-1900. Strangely, this is one of the areas of small arms development that was driven by military interests rather than civilian invention being modified for military use. The object was of course for the armies of Europe to be able to better kill one another. A metal called cupro-nickel was the first jacket material experimented with. Gilding copper as we know it came a bit later. Obviously, the whole problem was and is one of velocity.

Prior to this point in time, cast and possibly swaged bullets were all that were used in civilian and military cartridges. As the propellent was black powder, chamberings tended to favor larger calibers, ranging from 38,(375) to .577 as the large bore made higher sustained rates of fire between cleanings possible. Breech loading solved some of those problems but not all. Most sporting rifles were bored 38 to 50 caliber, not because such a heavy bore is needed for sporting purposes, but because of the same fouling problems encountered by the military. As well, the attainable velocity of a bullet being pushed by black powder is generally fixed, so the only way to get more power from a gun is to increase the bullet weight. Heavier charges were not to gain velocity, but rather to be able to keep velocity as bullet weight was increased. In comparison, a 45-70 and a 45-90 will drive 400 grain bullets to essentially equal velocities. The 45-90 however is capable of driving 500 grainers to the same velocity as a 45-70 drives 400's.

Our approach today to cast bullets and caliber is nearly the opposite of our great grandfathers, who grew up with with nothing but cast and black. No one from those days would have considered a 180 grain bullet in a 30 caliber for deer size game. However, a 200-300 grain bullet in a 38 caliber is an entirely different story.

The 38-55 and 38-72 came along a bit late in the story to make a large impact on the sporting scene, however the 40-65 Win, 40-70 Sharps, 45-70 Gov't were the deer rifles of their day. Compare these honestly to the ballistics of a 30 caliber bullet at 1800 fps or so. I believe you will find that there is not such a huge difference in range and energy performace that you would be loosing by using a big bore over the 30, and I am sure that you will be more than pleased with the terminal performance.

Dale,

I just took a meat hog with my Contender in .357. Bullet was the Lyman 158gr SWC, 358156 AR, weighing 163gr(+-)out of air-cooled wheelweights. Load was 15gr H-110, with a mag primer. The boar was about 55yds, and I double-lunged him. He went about 100-150yds after the shot, but wound up about 75yds from where he was hit (big circle). I was a bit leery of hitting this 125-150# hog dead in the shoulder. I didn't know if the .357 had the oomph to completely penetrate both shoulders. Based on this one animal, I may do just that next time. I think it has plenty of zap, based on the amount of bloodshot meat, under the near shoulder. all-in-all, a good experience. as our deer seldom weigh what this hog did, I don't see any trouble taking one this year with the .357 mag.

Link to hogs

has pics of this hog, plus a couple more I took.

JPH45: Excellent capsule history! I have been reviewing this stuff and answering questions on older moulds and loading tools, and would add that the transition from BP and lead to smokeless and "hardshell" bullets also involved a lot of re-thinking as to bullet vs. barrel dimensions. At the start of the Civil War, everyone was used to bullets smaller than bore diameter (so they could be muzzle-loaded), and the rapid initial pressure rise of BP assured obturation and allowed them - except the target shooters with their harder-alloy "picket" bullets - to be pretty casual about bullet fit. (Studies of early Paterson, Walker and Dragoon Colts show the cylinders bored to BORE diameter!) Gradually, through the 1870s and -80's, shooters became used to the idea of lead bullets somewhere between bore and groove diameter (or paper-patched to same); but still relied on "bump-up" for final obturation. But with jacketed bullets and the new smokeless - especially with deterrents added to slow initial pressure rise and to give more thrust further down the barrel, BAD problems with accuracy and barrel erosion were encountered. As late as 1900 and even 1910, major ammo makers were still loading j-word bullets below groove diameter; read Chas. Newton's fulminations on the topic. The pendulum swung the other way, soft lead, hard alloy and even hardshell bullets were specified at or even a couple of thousandths over groove diameter (REM-UMC loaded 0.310" bullets for the [mostly] 0.308"-groove .303 Savage right to the end of production); and we see, for example, Ideal/Lyman moulds swinging wildly, from 0.357" to 0.360" for the .38 Spl. as an example, over the years. We are STILL learning in this area! floodgate

429421 cast from wheel weights+1%tin and air cooled for a BHN of 11 has acounted for many whitetails from variuos .44 mag revolvers. All bullets completely penetrated the animal. Some were head shots, some were neck shots and a few heart/lung shots. All deer were recovered, but the neck and heart/lung shots required some tracking. From this point forward, I'm going for the shoulder. The theory is that when the "wheels" is busted, it ain't gonna move far. Velocity of my loads is approx 1250 fps. I've also shot a bull moose and a bull elk with a cast 358009 @ 280g and BHN 22 from a .35 Whelen. Velocity was 2150 fps. Moose was 350 yards and elk was 75 yds. Once again no boolit was recovered. Good luck on your quest. This year I'm going moose hunting again with the .35 Whelen and the .358009, but I'm experimenting with composite (two alloy) 429421's on deer. My velocity is gonna be around 1000 fps, which should make my 329PD easier for recoil control.--Shuz