I just got some 300gr cast bullets in and wanted to do a reduced load with them. The only rifle powder I have is IMR 3031, but none of the books I have show a lowered load for it just the full loads. Does anyone have a reduced load for the 45/70 300gr with this powder.

Second question, do you have to use a dacron wad with a reduced load to keep the powder all at the bottom of the case? If so do you just get the dacron fiber bag and tear some off then stuff a bit down in the case on top of the powder?

Thanks
Wes

WesN, My Lyman "Cast Bullet Handbk., 3rd Ed." gives these starting loads with a 293gr. and a 322gr. CB:

293gr.: 34gr. IMR 3031 wi. a 5/8" square x 1/4" thick dacron wad (1/2gr. by weight) over the powder.

322gr.: 29gr. IMR 3031 wi. same dacron wad as above.

Btw, these are starting loads for the 1873 Springfield, which is a good place to begin if you don't want the recoil of stiffer loads. ...Maven

Don't know if I like the idea of over wads on reduced loads.In my Marlin 45gov I push a 300 grn cast, along in front of 25 gns of ADI2205 (H4227)and don't use any form of filler.

D-o-K, I don't know if I trust dacron wads or not, but as I wrote yesterday, they are exactly what Lyman recommended (p.232 of "CB Handbk., 3rd Ed."). A better solution is to use a 7/16" arch punch to cut paper disks (from subscription cards that are included with most magazines) ~.006-.008" thick and seat them gently on top of the powder charge wi. a dowel or golf tee. This ensures that the powder charge is in contact wi. the primer + the thin disks are completely atomized by firing the charge. ...Maven

Ok its not like I know what I'm talking about here but just a thought. When the powder goes off would not the wad be the bullet? and would that not make the bullet look like a pluged bore??

Gregg, Here is what most likely happens when the primer ignites, All of the powder in the case is shot forward by the primer jet with enough force to engrave the grains into the base of a lead bullet. If there is kapok or dacron between the powder and the bullet it is probably compressed to the thickness of a business card agains the base of the bullet. The only other bullet in there would be the powder itself or what is not in full combustion. If the powder is a fast flake type it is most likely is all gone before it hits the filler. IMO JB

quote:

Originally posted by gregg:
Ok its not like I know what I'm talking about here but just a thought. When the powder goes off would not the wad be the bullet? and would that not make the bullet look like a pluged bore??

Maybe. I have never had a problem using either dacron or kapok in the 45-70. However, one time, I was playing around with light loads using 10.0 gr. of Unique with a 300 gr. cast bullet. Ignition was a bit erratic, so, bright light that I am, I used over powder wads for thr 410 shotgun to hold the powder charge against the primer. BAD IDEA! Out ot the twenty rounds I fired, two of them ringed the barrel. Not the chamber, but one was about 4-5" down the barrel and the other about 7" down the barrel. About the only thing I can figure is on twp occasions, the wad turned sideways to some degree and did not exit the barrel. The next shot caused the ringing of the barrel. FWIW, it is so slight, that I didn't even notice it until later when cleaning the gun. That particular bullet mold cast cast a bullet that was a but too small in diameter and leaded like hell. After a serious cleaning session, when I checked out the barrel with my bore light to insure I'd gotten rid of all the leading, I saw the two shadows showing where the ringing occurred. I still shoot the rifle, and FWIW, accuracy hasn't changed any from before the ringing occurred.
Another type of filler I quit using are the cereal types like corn meal and Cream of Wheat. (COW) One of my pet loads was 17.0 gr. of SR-4759 with a 330 gr. plain based hollow point bullet. (Lyman #457122) One day at the range, I had a misfire. When I got home, I pulled the bullet and when I went to dump the powder and COW out of the case, it wouldn't come out. I had to dig it out with a screwdriver. I felt that being that hard, the COW might cause pressure problems. The same load without the COW gave 100 FPS less than when using the cereal filler.
Paul B.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

The above site has a lot of data for low-velocity loads. I don't know what velocity you are looking for, so I don't know if this will be relevant.

My experience with 3031 in the 45-70 is that the pressures are marginal with normal loads, to get reasonable combustion. Reducing the load pressure produces lots of powder "zombies" and sooty cases - both of which are indications of "too low" pressure. 3031 is a good powder, but it has never worked for me making light loads.

My suggestion would be to look into loadings using pistol powder. Mid-range powder, such as Unique, AA#5, etc. can give velocities to around 1400fps. Fast powders, such as Bullseye, Clays, AA#2 can give good performance to 1000fps or so.

Some of my best plinking loads for the 45-70 are sub-sonic using Clays. My best "plinkers" for the 30-30 ran right at 1100fps using Clays. By the way, no fillers are needed with fast pistol powders.

To me, these are "reduced" loads.

Wesn, 3031 needs some boolit weight to burn good in the straight wall case. For example, 38 grs. behind a 500 gr gov't boolit shoots very accuratly and clean. For a nice pleasant load with a 300 gr. cast, I use 31 grs. of SR4759 with a tuft of dacron over the powder. Extremely accurate.

I shoot a 45/70 Marlin. I have used Kapok, Dacron and cornmeal. They all hold the reduced powder charge against the primer. One is as good as the other. However ,with powder prices what they are, why not go to pistol powder. I have used 13.5 Gr. of UNIQUE reg. rifle primer and a 405 Gr. lead bullet. Velocity around 1150 ft/sec. Pleasant to shoot all day. Good accuracy..

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Wesn, 3031 needs some boolit weight to burn good in the straight wall case. For example, 38 grs. behind a 500 gr gov't boolit shoots very accuratly and clean. For a nice pleasant load with a 300 gr. cast, I use 31 grs. of SR4759 with a tuft of dacron over the powder. Extremely accurate.

Perhaps you had (have?) a tighter bore in your gun than my rifle had (an original Pacific Ballard .45-70). Anyway, 39 grains of 3031 behind a Lyman 457125 500-gr. bullet, fired by a WLR primer was NOT a clean burning load in my rifle. In fact, on numerous occasions it had a "flame-out" in the bore, leaving unburned powder everywhere. A couple of times a bullet stuck in the bore.

Wes
For light loads in my 45-70s is what ever the Lyan cast bullet book says with a 2 inch square of Kleenex tamped down tightly on the powder. toilet paper works also.
I have used a well polished 1/4 to 3/8th inch dowel to tamp the paper down with. I've also used the end of a Belding and Mull powder measure drop tube.
The paper burns up in the barrel.
Jim

I have limited use with wads in a 45-70, but will say that a 1/8" wad of florist foam over a reduced charge of AA 5744 (27 grains) shot really well out of a Remington #3 Rolling block. I would suggest the foam, because it literally vaporizes with the shot, and there is no residue at all... I just cookie-cutter it over the slightly belled mouth of the case and push it down tight over the powder. Works well for me...