Quote: Lesson: DON'T USE FILLERS; THEY CAUSE ARGUMENTS! floodgate
Reading back thru this thread there's a good exchange of ideas minus the mental unraveling of the 'chrome boy'.
Martin outlined what Dell concluded using the wads. I'm going to load some with cotton just under the bullet base and see if any remains in the bore or cases.
Yes, three gun keyboard genie, please do let us know if you ring your chamber.
Unless I am wrong (and I'm sure you will correct me) , the ringing problem was traced back to the level of the powder charge being at a straight angle to the case wall, in most cases being held there by a filler. Apparently, leaving some airspace between wad and powder solved the problem, as it allowed the powder to "angle" downwards, preventing the 'ringing' shockwave. Still, I won't use fillers in BN cases - too much risk of the filler migrating down with shocks, transport etc. If you want a reduced load, shoot a smaller cartridge! But I am leery of any solid having to squeeze through a BN under high pressure too. And I prefer to be safe rather than sorry...
This thread is very informative, if we keep it on a technical basis and not get into the personal mode. Let's think about the problem and not the person. Just my opinion.
Posts: 363 | Location: Missouri Ozarks, USA | Registered: 10 July 2002
I own over 150 rifles, and have been shooting cast in most of them for 35 years, so I hope that elevates me above the status of 'keyboard shooter'.
I can only support Starmetals arguement that the incorrect type of filler was used in this instance. Dacron has been used for many years and is mentioned many times in old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks. The general thinking by many shooters and experimentors over the years has been that suitable filler should only be used in bottleneck cases and not straight walled cases. I have never ringed a chamber from firing thousands of 30.06 cast loads with filler. Since my interest is in target shooting however, I have found that the very best accuracy has been obtained from slower burning powders that increase the density of powder in the case and thus not requiring fillers.
Recently I was asked to examine a fine Sharps 45/90 with a ringed chamber to determine the cause. With the rifle I got 4 loaded rounds. The load was 60gn 3F GOEX Kapoc filler and a 406gn Lyman 457193 cast projectile.
From disassembling a round there was 5/8" of free space occupied by the fibre and by measurement the ring occurred just at the interface of the powder/filler. At this time I haven't made a final conclusion as to the cause as I am awaiting hardness tests on the barrel steel, but from reading many articles by others, I have only ever used solid fillers (i.e Polenta) in large capacity BP cases without any problem over many years. This incident clearly indicates that ringing can occurr with ANY propellent smokeless or black!
To conclude, if the filler you are using IS leaving obstructions in the barrel then clearly it is NOT suitable for the purpose intended.
Posts: 1785 | Location: Kingaroy, Australia | Registered: 29 April 2002
Quote: Unless I am wrong (and I'm sure you will correct me) , the ringing problem was traced back to the level of the powder charge being at a straight angle to the case wall, in most cases being held there by a filler. Apparently, leaving some airspace between wad and powder solved the problem, as it allowed the powder to "angle" downwards, preventing the 'ringing' shockwave. Still, I won't use fillers in BN cases - too much risk of the filler migrating down with shocks, transport etc. If you want a reduced load, shoot a smaller cartridge! But I am leery of any solid having to squeeze through a BN under high pressure too. And I prefer to be safe rather than sorry...
Leaving an airspace between the powder and the filler would be very hard chore to do. Practically no sense in using a filler then. I've used and seen fillers used in bottleneck cases like 223, 243, and 260...without any problems when done correctly. I'm not correcting you on the powder being held at a right angle to case as I'm not sure causes it.
To be sure he has problems... but he's just a coward with a mouth. I mean why give an fool any attetion...I don't. He's just digging his own grave.
Guys all I see when the keyboard shooter posts is how in the past he sent me a pm about how's he's 6 foot 6 inchs and weighs over 300 pounds and how he's going to kick my ass and I'm not the only person he's done that too. You don't fool anyone and I know for a fact I'm not on your ignore, and who gives me attention? YOU DO, cause you might learn something, which is unlikely for an underacheiver who still lives with him parents and only owns 3 guns which from he has learned all these massive information.
Quote: Lesson: DON'T USE FILLERS; THEY CAUSE ARGUMENTS! floodgate
Reading back thru this thread there's a good exchange of ideas minus the mental unraveling of the 'chrome boy'.
Martin outlined what Dell concluded using the wads. I'm going to load some with cotton just under the bullet base and see if any remains in the bore or cases.
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001
Actually, all that was needed, apparently, was enough space to allow the powder to 'angle' just a bit down with gravity (a few mm) - and the guy who found the cause was C.E.Dell, who was even able to reproduce chamber ringing by 'correctly' positioning the powder. Beware, this was in straight-wall cases, and I personally still won't shoot fillers in any BN, even when using this technique. You just need to be unlucky once, and you have at the very least ruined a rifle - if not worse. I won't take that risk. I don' t care what others do, that's their business, but for me, the only filler in BN cases is powder. And if you want less power, get another rifle - at least it's a good excuse to do so. Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but I keep visualising a filler wad getting stuck in the BN of a case, with pressure building up behind - but not in my rifles! And maybe you can shoot 1000's of shots without something happening, but it only needs to happen once... No thanks, I will gladly chicken out. If a BN cases needs a filler the filler MUST stay in the neck - and this is only feasible with long-necked BP-origin cartridges. And those preferably loaded with BP, too...
, the ringing problem was traced back to the level of the powder charge being at a straight angle to the case wall, in most cases being held there by a filler. Apparently, leaving some airspace between wad and powder solved the problem, as it allowed the powder to "angle" downwards, preventing the 'ringing' shockwave. Still, I won't use fillers in BN cases - too much risk of the filler migrating down with shocks, transport etc. If you want a reduced load, shoot a smaller cartridge! But I am leery of any solid having to squeeze through a BN under high pressure too. And I prefer to be safe rather than sorry...
He's just digging his own grave.
