I just got a 45-70 rifle. I am using IMR-4198 for my 405 gr bullets. (was told to use this) I have been watching some old timers at silhouette shooting. They were doing real good. I ask them what they were using, most said to use 405 bullet with a "Duplex Load" but would not say how much. OK! duplex, two powders, but how much. One did say he used 231 with a old powder, AA-8700 of 58gr. OK!! Can someone help me out at what they are saying?
I highly recommend IMR-3031,do your self a favor & Keep It Simple=kiss,dont fool with mixing some voo-doo powder stuff,big no-no. If you cant find a load on the above link that works in your 45-70 i would trade it in,lots of good powders & loads there.Hope this helps and good luck!If your looking for lead only loads,get a Accurate powder load book or call them/checkout there site,lots of loads with lead only bullets..Great powder Too..If you can find a load with AA5744 you will be set,check on steves pages also,i will try to post more links,also check Beartooth bullets site..Good luck & happy shooting!
Posts: 3608 | Location: USA | Registered: 08 September 2004
Also forgot to tell you my advice,,,start out low and watch for pressure signs & dont go past max loads..take it easy and see what your rifle likes,,,work up slow,many times just a grain or 2 over start loads will be the most accurate load.Hope this helps & post a pic of your target when you get the ol'45-70 shooting good groups..welcome to the Band of 45-70ers!
Posts: 3608 | Location: USA | Registered: 08 September 2004
Black powder with 10% smokeless is pretty common for BPCR shooting at 1000 yards. However the powder is layerd in the case and it is kept from mixing by compression. Duplexing 2 smokeless powders just to be able to use some super slow burner that is cheap is not reasonable behavior to me.
Posts: 13978 | Location: http://www.tarawaontheweb.org/tarawa2.jpg | Registered: 03 December 2008
blackbearhunter: Thanks, I have been thinking about staying away from duplex loads. I also want to keep it easy. I have tryed to get 5744 from all over the country with no help at all. I talked to Accurate Powder, they said they had some going out soon, but out to whom? Stevespages looks good, I'll try some of them. I will only be doing 405 lead bullets and at silhouette only not black bear. Again thanks
SR4759 is a awsome powder too & you will love it and its easier to find,I highly recommend it and it is not position sensetive and will need no-filler,the start load will be a creame puff load,also checkout the beartooth bullets recoil calculater,this will help you determine the loads recoil easy.Good luck & glad i can help & happy shooting! bbh
Posts: 3608 | Location: USA | Registered: 08 September 2004
Elmer Keith wrote of putting 8 or 10 grains of a smokeless (SR 4759 IF I recall) in the base of a .45/90 before adding the black powder to help "blow the crud" out and make cleaning easier. Black powder supposedly burns only about 50% of the powder and the rest is "ash." Some goes out the muzzle... Some. You scrub the rest.
Rocky Gibbs had high pressure smokeless powder, duplex loads in the days after WW II when powder availability was poor. He also used a "flash tube" screwed into the threaded flash hole to deliver the primer blast into the slow powder just under the bullet... Complicated.
I think it was Keith who wrote of working with the concept for the military at some arsenal. Claimed to achieve an extra 200 fps in .50 Browning. BUT. There was no way to ship the ammo without mixing the powders and creating a dangerous condition. Project was shelved...
Harvey Donaldson wrote of beginning his competition shooting with single shot black powder rifles with the false muzzles for loading the bullet, AND THEN, hopefully, loading a cartridge without bullet into the chamber... Yes, occassionally a false muzzle went down range... oh wellllllll
POINT: Mr. D said that they sought accuracy with these black powder guns by cutting the load. They wanted the bullet just tipping as it struck the paper and making an oval hole. Then, to keep the case full, they would substitute a filler. Cream of Wheat? Common.
If you must, you might be able to find Mr. Gibbs data from Wolf/Phoenix, the publishers of my book. Otherwise, I would avoid the hassle, risk. Save the risks.
.45/70 is worked in 3 levels. The Indian War Trapdoor Springfield was a conversion of the Civil War musket. WEAK. Black powder loads to 15K CUP. Shotgun pressure levels. The buffalo guns were much stronger. Sharps. Hi-wall. Modern copies even more strong. Pressures in the +P revolver range. 20K CUP. Then there are the "modern guns"... Modern, smokeless powder levels. 40K CUP.
With the variety of powders and the variability of guns, seek good data and don't play, OR at least check and make sure you have plenty of good life insurance FIRST... luck...
Originally posted by Ben Greenway: I just got a 45-70 rifle. I am using IMR-4198 for my 405 gr bullets. (was told to use this) I have been watching some old timers at silhouette shooting. They were doing real good. I ask them what they were using, most said to use 405 bullet with a "Duplex Load" but would not say how much. OK! duplex, two powders, but how much. One did say he used 231 with a old powder, AA-8700 of 58gr. OK!! Can someone help me out at what they are saying?
How are doing with your duplex load question? I'd suggest carrying a notebook in your pocket and try asking questions at the silhouette matches. Declare you are a newby and would like to give it a try. Keep asking until you get help. Rifle matches, in my experience, has been the place to get more info than one could ever use- the competitors are usually the greatest guys you'll ever meet. THey may seem a little brusk only because they are focused on shooting. Just keep trying.
On the duplex question. This isn't the board to ask about duplexing. I've seen people just get hammered on the topic here. I use duplexing with my military rifles shooting 5010 and 860 surplus 50 cal machine gun powders. Every time the topic comes up someone invariably attacks which I consider sporting good fun but some get turned away from the topic completely.
I just typed "Duplex" into the search at the cast bullets forum and got 324 posts on duplexing. Go there and ask questions. You'll get more answers than you can handle!
