Was planning to use 400 grains hard cast bullets (sized .452) in my 45 Vaqueros and Marlin Cowboy Rifle. Powder available is Vihtavuori 110. Any suggestions as to min-max loads with these bullet weights. 300grainers with 18grains give outstanding accuracy in the rifle - but wanted to get power without gas checks. Read in Paco's pages that pressure could increase dramatically with heavier weight bullets -- any experience out there before I try it..

Ronnberg,

Paco is correct, pressure will increase dramatically, question; why such heavy bullet weight?
A good 300 or 320 grain hard cast in your Vaquero is a nice thumper, shoot them from a marlin and your adding another 2-300fps.

400grain weights, well you might as well move up to 45-70.

Thanks Mitchell, I do have a 45/70 too - but I like my 45 much more. The main reason I would like to try the 400's is that I happen to have ten thousand lying on the loading bench... Being lazy I thought I would shoot them before casting any more 300's. Another reason was that I wanted to test the long barreled Marlin 45 Colt on longer distance (200yards) and would think that heavier bullets keep their speed better.

quote:

Originally posted by ronnberg:
Thanks Mitchell, I do have a 45/70 too - but I like my 45 much more. The main reason I would like to try the 400's is that I happen to have ten thousand lying on the loading bench... Being lazy I thought I would shoot them before casting any more 300's. Another reason was that I wanted to test the long barreled Marlin 45 Colt on longer distance (200yards) and would think that heavier bullets keep their speed better.

10 thousand lying around waiting to be loaded and shot is as good a reason as any.

Pressure will be tricky at those weights, be careful in your load work up.

I think it was Mr. Limbaugh that suggested in one of his articles that 300-325 was about max for the 45 Colt and still get decent velocities at reasonable pressure. P.A. Widegren wrote an article (Handloaders Digest, 1996) claiming to have gotten 700+ fps out of a 500 grain bullet in a Ruger but gave it up until getting a 454 Casull because the velocity was a little lower than he would have liked and that he needed a higher front sight for the heavy loads.

I a seriously thinking about doing a 45-120 project gun in .452 and if it starts to come together, i would be interested in some of your bullets.

The makers of the LBT boolits say that 335 gr's is max in the .45 colt and about the right starting weight in the .454.

I have loaded some 360gr cast with lil-gun and got around 1150fps out of my 7 1/2" bisley and I'm starting to experiment with Unique and the same bullet for lower velocity but havent run them thru the crony yet.
Scott

Serveral years ago Ross Sefreid tried the 400 grain bullets in a 5 shot 45 colt and got some pretty impresive speeds but found them to destabalize in game and not penetrate well at all

The Hogdon site goes up to 360gr, you can extrapolate from there.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/45coltlil.php
I have loaded up to 350gr in my .44mag & you are right, pressures will go up quickly.

When I tried 300 grain bullets in my .44 Mag the POI went way up and the rear sight wouldn't adjust low enough to compensate. Must have been due to the greater recoil. You may need to get a taller front sight.

I had the same problem w/ 300gr in my Ruger BH. I took the sight out & filed the nderside down so I could get a couple more clicks in. Ypu could also file down the rear sight or replace w/ a lower one. Much easier than trying to stretch the front.

Hi,
I'm new to the forum, and I like to shoot heavy bullets in the my 45 colt Ruger Bisley.I read this article by John Knutson and had to try it.

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=5

I settled on a 325 grain Keith Style which does well for me with Lil Gun and H110.
The article is worth the read.

Finally had a try. 14grs VV-110 gave only 918f/s out of the Marlin with too little pressure (brass not expanded), 16grs went 1170 with ok pressures.17grs primers started cratering. Couldn't get the velocities on the last one as my chrono was fiddly (-25celsius...on the range) - got a sub 2" group at 100m with the 14grains. However, I think they do not stabilize - as the bullet holes slightly sideways. Will wait for warmer weather and try again.

I may be wrong but are 45-70 bullets bigger arround than 45LC. You might want to mike them first.

Yes - the 45/70 uses .458 or .459 sized bullets. But in the case of the Magma 405 mold with three grease grooves - it is no problem first sizing/lubing them to .458 and then putting them a second time through either .454 or .452. And these are Cast 2parts Linotype 1part lead so close to 20brinnell.

First problem with the 400 gr boolit is you are getting way out of line with what the rifling twist needs for stability. You will find that once a decent shooting load is found, that it will be the ONLY load you can use. Any variation in powder charge will make the groups go to hell in a hurry. This means that any change in outside temperature that changes the burn rate of the powder will give you fits.
Another strange thing is that on the site listed, 21.5 gr's of H110 was found the most accurate with the lowest SD with a lot of boolits. I have found that 21.5 gr's of 296 is the most accurate load in the .44 mag with 300 to 330 gr boolits and in the .45 Colt with 335 to 340 gr boolits.
I have also found that 296 is way more accurate in the BH's then H110. I have recently shot an 1-1/4" group with my SBH at 100 yd's. This load in a SRH has hit pop cans at 200 yd's. Both of these guns will regularly shoot 1" or under at 50 yd's.
H110 is much more accurate in the standard Redhawk for some reason, 296 shoots wild groups. Most of you depend too much on one powder and think H110 and 296 are exactly the same. There is a slight difference in the burn rates as they are specified by Hodgden and Winchester.
Then all of you are using magnum primers in the .44 and .45 because that is what the manuals say to use. The secrets to my groups are two things. Fed 150 primers in the .44 and .45! I just shot another series of test groups to post a picture on another site. The groups were shot at 50 yd's. The 150 primers shot a beautiful, round 1" group. The 155 primers group measured 3-5/8". This has been my experence loading these two calibers since 1956. I have shot thousands of groups to test this. Moving up to the BFR .475 Linebaugh requires mag primers for accuracy. I just shot a 5/8" 50 yd group with this gun.
The other secret is even case tension on the boolit. I will use nothing but Hornady dies for revolvers. If you are using RCBS dies, my suggestion is to at least get the Hornady expander or polish down the RCBS expander so it does not open the case mouth so much.
The one thing I hate about this site is the inability to post pictures.

Problem is the 400s won't stabilize in the Ruger. Twist is too slow. been there, done that. The 340 is about max. 18.5 grains 2400 is great with the 340. 400s won't work. Sorry

True, you can't get them fast enough. However I have the Lyman 452651 that drops at 347 gr that I shoot out of my Vaquero. Here are 5 shots at 50 yd's.

quote:

Hi,
I'm new to the forum, and I like to shoot heavy bullets in the my 45 colt Ruger Bisley.I read this article by John Knutson and had to try it.

I was not impressed at all with the 20 yd groups he was getting. Then to just push for the highest velocity! Lil'Gun is a crazy powder and burns super HOT. A barrel will solder pipe after 10 shots. Stick with 296 and a Fed 150 primer.
Notice he did not post group sizes shot with the Keith boolit? Why?, I can tell you but I make a lot of enemies!
That article only looked like he was looking for velocity and not accuracy.
My Vaquero has dropped deer in their tracks to 100 yd's. None of my revolvers are EVER shot closer then 50 yd's and some are shot to 500 meters. 20 yd's----bah humbug!

S&W 25-5 I'm shooting 11 grs of Unique behind a Sierra 300gr JSP. Getting 980 FPS. Does any one really care?

quote:

Originally posted by IronWorker378:
S&W 25-5 I'm shooting 11 grs of Unique behind a Sierra 300gr JSP. Getting 980 FPS. Does any one really care?

AT that vel. you are not likely to get much if any expansion. Switch to a lead flat point of the same wt. & save some wear & tear on your forcing cone. I shoot 10gr under a 300gr LFP for 975fps from my 4 5/8"RBH. This load outpenetrates 380gr soft points in my 404jeffery.

Are you saying the Copper jacketed bullets are the cause of the wear? They had these bullets marked way down so I had to buy them. What brand 300 gr Lead Cast bullets are you shooting? 404 jeffery is that a double rifle? What have you hunted with that?

quote:

Originally posted by IronWorker378:
Are you saying the Copper jacketed bullets are the cause of the wear? They had these bullets marked way down so I had to buy them. What brand 300 gr Lead Cast bullets are you shooting? 404 jeffery is that a double rifle? What have you hunted with that?

Shooting a lot of jacketed bullets will increase forcing cone wear. Lead bullets are a bit more forgiving as they salm into the forcing cone. I cast my own 300grLFP from a Lee 6cav mold, but there are a few hobby casters making them for sale.
Nope, my 404j is a M70, semi custom. I had it made from a 300RUM, love it. It's taken two buffalo now, each as one shot kills.