OK Guys,

Looking for experience with cast bullets in a high performance .458 Mauser based bolt rifle. Am interested in a gas checked bullet design that is useful for NA hunting as well as practice.

I'm thinking that a bullet with a large meplat is best for hunting.

Would appreciate comments as to bullet design, performance, and feeding from your experience.

Thanks!

Try Montana bullet works.

I haven't used any of his bullets, but when I have spoken to shooters at The Quigley shoot in Forsyth, MT they all have been pleased with his bullets.

You're basically talking about a hot .45-70 load in a funny case. Bullets cast of straight linotype, or of wheelweight metal dropped from the mould into a bucket of water, are good to about 30,000 psi. You'll need them .002 larger than groove diameter.

Weight is up to you, but I can't imagine anything in North America needing anything more than a 350 grain bullet at 2000 fps. Expect a half inch hole all the way through. Your bullets will have to be too hard to expand much.

The old Lyman cast bullet manual had lots of good recommendations for the 458.
Jim

I use a 500 gr lyman, I forget the mold design but it is a rn that is almost flat at the front. Personally I like to keep cast bullet rifle velocity to 2000 fps. I find it easier to get good accuracy and not have to worry about leading even with non hardened wheelweights at that velocity.

So if you're going to limit your velocity, you might as well go with the heaviest possible bullet. For all over NA loads, I'd want at least a 400 gr bullet, better yet a 450, and why not 500 gr? I do like a decent sized meplat ~80% of bore dia or say 0.375" in the case of a .458" slug.

Feeding will depend on how your action is set up. The 500 gr lymans feed slick in my 458 Lott.

Guys,

Have been casting bullet for pistols and 30 cal rifle for 40 years more or less. Have been making .470 500 FPGC bullets for a couple of years.

Of all the moulds I've used, I like the Ballisti-Cast made moulds the best. They are the successor to Hensley & Gibbs. Others are OK, but the H&G moulds are simply beautifully made and work very, very well.

The one thing I have found out over the years is that some bullet designs are inherently more accurate than others. Some work better in certain kinds of actions than others.

Looking for that kind of information this time.

Thanks,

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Guys,



The one thing I have found out over the years is that some bullet designs are inherently more accurate than others. Some work better in certain kinds of actions than others.

Looking for that kind of information this time.

Thanks,

My experience with 45 caliber cast bullets is with a 45-70. The two most accurate bullets that I have experience with are both older Lyman molds, both are gas checked the 500 grain is Lyman's 457406 using wheel wieghts dropped in water at casting using Rooster Red or LBT Blue the second is Lyman's #457102 445 grain using wheel weights quenched at casting using Alox, LBT or Rooster.The powder of choice is IMR 4064, a case full and a tight crimp.
Both bullets are great in my bolt gun and a bit more then I then I enjoy in my 1886.
Hope this helps.
Jim

Paul Matthews in "40 Years of the 45/70" (1996) discusses lead bullet moulding extensively, having several custom moulds made to specific diameter specs.

He's hunting deer in Pennsylvania and using most a 400 / 425 / 450 gr. bullet in a Marlin 1895, and also a single shot rifle. He develops some loads for BP silhouette.

He does some gas check and metplat pills, but seems to prefer a soft-cast alloy of lead, tin, anitmony and paper patched. The soft lead alloy expands in game -- not wanting to blow a hole entirely through a deer.

Paper patched soft bullet allows the projectile to expand in the bore tightly against the rifling with the paper providing a bearing surface to reduce leading. Then, the soft lead expands at sub 2,000 fps. velocities in game.

I have used PP wheel weight bullets in my 458 pre-64 at full speed. 2-2 1/2" at 100 yards. Don't remember the load, but I used 3031 powder.

check out the 430gr GC RFN from Laser-CAst in Baker, Oregon. 24Bhn. Ran some out the 458wm at 2200fps..2" at 100yds.

Rich

I shoot paper patch 405 gr soft 20-1 alloy bullets in my Marlin at about 1850 fps with decent accuracy. Retreived one that went thru a deer, after pulverizing one front shoulder-weighed about 360 gr, mushroomed nicely. You have to size with a pistol .451 lube/size die to make room for the paper patch, and use thin rag stock typewriter paper wrapped around twice, with 45 deg ends cut on the paper.

The 458 has very large throat. The factory throating is more like a forcing cone. Figures from Clymer quote a .469" diam throat with a very gentle, 30 minute leade. This in effect gives you a long and relatively sloppy throat. It was designed to lower pressures and function with dirty ammo under difficult conditions and not necessarily shoot cast bullets well.

The 458 has a reputation of shooting jacketed of all weights reasonably well if driven hard. However it is generally quite tricky to get 458's to shoot well with lighter cast bullets. I asked this question on a different forum as I am looking at setting up a 458 for shooting cast and the vast majority that responded only had good results with heavier cast (ie around 500 gr). One or two respondents had some measure of success with lighter cast, but only when they used really oversized bullets. This is not difficult to rationalise: for best support the base of the bullet needs to be still in the case as the nose begins to engage the rifling.

Regards hunting with 45 calibres, I can only speak of using cast in the 45/70. I mostly use a 400gr RCBS FNGC. This has a reasonable sized meplat and no functioning problems in 1895 Marlin. It is quite effective on game up to buffalo in Oz.

In your application you might consider the larger 500gr RCBS FNGC.

Trust this helps

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
OK Guys,

Looking for experience with cast bullets in a high performance .458 Mauser based bolt rifle. Am interested in a gas checked bullet design that is useful for NA hunting as well as practice.

I'm thinking that a bullet with a large meplat is best for hunting.

Would appreciate comments as to bullet design, performance, and feeding from your experience.

Thanks!

I use Cast Performance bullets in my 45lc,454casull and sw460 very accurate http://www.castperformance.com Grizzly Cartridge owns CP.Lots of info on that site. http://www.beartoothbullets.com

I had real good luck with the rcbs 500 in my old #1

I've been using a lee 459-500-3R mold with an alloy made of 100lbs wheel weights and 2 spools (2lbs) or 95/5 solder dropped from the mold into a bucket of water. I found the solder adds just enough tin to pour better and has the added benefit of adding antimony for hardening. It's the cheapest spire point I could find which is nice in a bolt or SS. As cast it is .459 diameter and 488gr using that alloy. It has an advertised bc of .443 which is double most blunt nosed 45/70 bullets and they group well for me from my Ruger #1.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
OK Guys,

Looking for experience with cast bullets in a high performance .458 Mauser based bolt rifle. Am interested in a gas checked bullet design that is useful for NA hunting as well as practice.

I'm thinking that a bullet with a large meplat is best for hunting.

Would appreciate comments as to bullet design, performance, and feeding from your experience.

Thanks!

I use the Lee 457-500F with Hornady GC and Javelina lube in my Siamese Mauser 450-400-70 (45-70). I push it to 2050 fps with RL7. I use WWs water quenched from the mould for "FMJ" loads and for practice loads. For hunting I cast them of magnum shot (3-5% antimony) alloy water quenched from the mould for malleable bullets that offer expansion. They kill elk quite dead.

Larry Gibson

Since you're casting your own bullets, the sky's the limit and your possibilities are unlimited.

Over at www.cb.gunloads.com (also known as "Cast Boolits") I have an extensive thread on casting bullets with pure-lead noses and harder shanks, and the caster can determine how he wants the proportions of each assigned in his own bullet.

Not only does it work, but it gives us a softnose bullet with NO JOINT OR WEAK POINT between the hard and soft portions of the bullet. Also, it's easy to make such softnoses in ANY conventional mould with about ten cents worth of extra equipment (if that much).

The thread is called "Streamlining Production of Softnose Bullets", and a search on 'Cast Boolits' for "softnose" should bring it up for you. Follow the thread to its end, because it's an exploratory situation and the final method isn't nailed down until just about the end.

My .416 Rigby RCBS-350 softpoints expanded in water jugs to over .80 caliber while retaining 2/3 of their weight at muzzle (and impact) velocity of 2100 fps....and these were early versions of the final product.