Anyone tried the Lee C309-113-F in a M94 30-30? Especially with Varget, H4198, or H4895. At 1900 fps or so it ought to make a good varmint/beer can round.

The Lee soupcan works well in a 30-30, Junior, but I think you'll get better results with faster powders. The light boolit doesn't allow much pressure buildup that the slower powders need. Give 'em a go, though! Tell us how they work.

I like about 28 gr of surplus WC844 or 18 gr of WC820. These are real loafers, so you can go grab a beer after you pull the trigger, and come back to wait for the boolit to hit the target. But then, I don't worry much about them beer can targets since they don't run very fast. A 1400-1500 fps boolit kills 'em dead.

Hey Junior do a search here for Lee "Soup cans" in 30-30

Cruised your sight the other day, good stuff!!

You need a few Gator stories, or toe biting snapper stories, maybe they are there and I just missed em.

Good luck with the soup cans I have a few hundred cast up, but haven't tried em out yet.

Good luck

I like using either 4227 or RX7 with the soup can in the 30-30.

Thanks for the good info, guys. A search on "Lee soupcan" gave bunches of results. Looks like that mold is popular. Gotta have one.

You should've been around a few months ago when a group order went in for custom 6-holer soupcan moulds!

TC. I like 4.5 gr. in the 30-30 with Lyman #311316, #3118HP and a SAECO 120 gr. RN. #3118 runs about 100 gr., #311316 115gr., and the SAECO 118-120 gr. There's no mold # on the SAECO, but it is an RN bevel based bullet. All three bullets are very accurate in a Ruger Blackhawk in .30 carbine as well with 5.0 gr. Unique and no extraction problems.
Paul B.

I spent all of yesterday afternoon trying to get good 50 yard groups with the Lee soup can in my M94 30-30 woods rifle. Best group all afternoon was 5 shots in 3 1/4" using H4350. It also turned in the best Chrony readings. But a 3 1/4" group at 50 yards is a miserable group, IMHO.

As I can load 5 rounds and step to my front porch bench and shoot, it was easy to test many loads. I used these powders: H4895, Varget, 2400, and H4350.

Weather permitting, I'll try again with H4350, but I'm beginning to think my rifle doesn't like soup.

Junior, I know of several guns, all levers, that do not like the soup can. So, don't get rid of the mold. Wait for another 30 caliber gun. The soup can does indeed shoot when it finds a gun it likes. But, again, what boolit style doesn't? Try finding a BlueDot loads for it, like about circa 10 grains. Who knows. ... felix

Junior try partial sizing your 30/30 brass so you have an unsized 'neck' of sorts at the cartridge case neck. Goes to alignment-- I use collet dies for the 30/30 which retain the fireformed headspace off the shoulder and therefore align the bullet down the bore center more readily.



Seat that slug into the lands for firm engagement and a large a bullet as the mold drops or the loaded neck dia will take.



Felix's suggestion about the Blue Dot/Unique speed area matches my loads which shooten well in the 30/30.



Cuttin' to the chase.. it's about alignment and big enough for the bore to get a good grip.. along with a powder speed that'll pop uniformily with that lite wt slug.

Thanks, Aladin, but I know all that. I'm wanting to use the soup can bullet in my hunting M94 30-30, and I full-length resize the cases for 100% reliable feeding. I also want easy seating in the chamber, so I can't seat the bullet out very far. For packing around in the woods all day while hog and varmit hunting the lesser weight of the 113-F vs the 174 gr 311041 means 1 1/2 oz weight saved for 10 rounds. That doesn't sound like much, but to a fellow with a heart condition 1 little oz more or less means a lot.

If I can get 2" 5 shot groups at 50 yards with the 113-F at circa 2,000 fps I'll be happy.

Junior, I suspect that you are way too slow on the powders you are using. 2400 is the only one in the lot that sounds at all likely. My take is that you just cannot get the pressures needed to make those slow powders burn uniformly without driving that bullet faster than it wants to go.

I agree 100%, DJ, but I'm hard headed. Varget, H4895, and H4350 all left lots of unburned powder in the bore. However, a higher and my last with that powder, 2046 fps load of H4350 left a clean bore, telling me pressures had raised (risen?) to the point of allowing complete powder burn. When (and if) the rain ends I'll try that same load but with the 113-F bullets sized .311" instead of .310". That should raise pressures a little more, and we shall see what it does to groups. Don't worry. I'm several grs away from an overload.

My alloy for the 113-F is very hard. I suspect I could go 2400 fps.

I gave up on getting good ~2000 fps 50 yard groups from this bullet in my woods M94 30-30. By "good" I mean ~2", 3 shot groups at 50 yards. It averaged ~5". I suspect it would work at ~1500 fps. Later on, I may try again in my target M94 30-30.

Hi Felix,
Good to see you on again. The load I use of BlueDot with that bullet is 10.5 gr. (what the Lee Dipper throws) & it shoots great. It's 1.0cc. Also use that same amount of Unique and it doesn't seem to make that much difference. Group size=2" @100 yds. (not 50). Scoped Black Shadow '94.
Don't have a chrono so don't know how fast.

I loaded some soup cans this morning for my woods M94 30-30 using 1.0 cc 2400. Got about a 3" group at 60 yards which ain't much punkin for paper punchin' but will work for short range coyotes, etc. Velocity est = 1500 fps which = twice the ft/lbs of a 22 mag. Best thing is that the zero is exactly the same as my deer hunting load, the 311041 @ 1900 fps. Using hunting peep sights, at 60 yards both loads put all rounds in the 5 1/2" bullseye of a B-8C(P) NRA 25 yard pistol target.

Also, I loaded the C309-113-F soup can bullets sans gas check. So at about 5 cents for powder, 1 cent for lead, and 4 cents for a primer, it'll cost about 10 cents per round to shoot.

The 1.0 cc 2400 load I mentioned above was a fluke. Further groups went 5" to 6" at 60 yards. One of my goals with the Lee C309-113-F "tin can" bullet was being able to keep the same sight setting, Point Of Impact, I use with my deer/hog/174 gr/1900 fps load. In other words, just pick up the rifle and shoot and not worry about allowing for a different impact point. I wanted 2000 fps from the tin can bullet, but like Mick Jagger said, We don't always get what we want.

I decided to lower the load/velocity/range and try for 25 yard groups. My woods 94 has a Williams peep rear and Firesight front. The Firesight covers a 5 1/2" bull at 60 yards and a 2" bull at 25 yards, but it's for hunting, not target shooting. Today, I loaded 5 rounds of the tin can bullet as cast and w/Lee Liquid Alox and with a .5cc dipper (6.7 grs) of 2400. I didn't even level the dipper as I wanted to be able to load these boogers fast. I set up a 2" square black bullseye at 25 yds. Five shots = Average Velocity = 1008 fps = 1 1/4" group = 1 1/2" low and exactly on in windage. My best group so far with the tin can bullet. Lookin' good. I figured maybe a little more powder would give a little more velocity and raise the POI a little.

Next dipper in my Lee set is a .7 cc (9.4 grs of 2400). Loaded 5 more fast-dipped rounds with it. Five shots = 1315 fps = 1 3/4" group; 4 shots = 7/8" group; all 5 shots almost exactly centered in bullseye, maybe 3/4" low, but I ain't got a .8cc dipper. Next size is 1.0 cc dipper, and I know it gives poor accuracy. So I'll leave well enough alone.

With the same sight setting, the deer/hog/174 gr/1900 fps load puts 3 shots all in a 5 1/2" bull at 60 yards, and the beer can tin can load puts 5 shots all in a 2" bull at 25 yards.

The tin can load (my actual bullet weight = 111.5 grs) gives 428 ft/lbs muzzle energy vs a 22 mag's 310 ft/lbs of muzzle energy. So I won't take it bear hunting or hog hunting. In fact, I don't know what I'll do with it other than putting tin can bullet holes in tin cans.

Junior

On your last post you mentioned that you used Lee Liquid Alox for the lube. On all your previous attempts what lube were you using? I know you're against this but I'd bet whatever I have to bet that a dacron filler would improve your groups. I think those slower powders you mentioned the Varget, H4895, 4350 are just a tad slow for such a light bullet, but I have had alot of success with the H4895...but I use a dacron or kapok filler. I wish that I lived next door to you, I'd make you a deal that I would and could shoot your woods 94 30-30, and get it to too group the way you want, but with a dacron or kapok filler, and I would buy you a new rifle if the filler hurt the chamber.

Joe

Here's what I'm shootin' outa my 94 with the lee 113 grainer: 10 grains unique for fun plinking and 18 to 20 grains of IMR4198. The unique is very mild and fun. The 4198 has more recoil and wacks pretty good. Both give minute of clay pigeon at 150 yards with a rest. Haven't shot em on a target to see what the group really is. All the above with gascheck installed and sized to .310...Gary D.

Joe, I used both liquid Alox and stick Alox. Nope, I will not use a filler.

Gary, as I have a can of H4198 I'll give it a try maybe this afternoon. Forgot I had it until your post.

Junior. I don't know what you have against using a filler, but hey, to each his own. I shoot a lot of cast from various 30-30 rifles, with my serious hunting load being the RCBS #30-180-FN. With 28.0 gr. of W0748, it duplicates the full power .303 Savage round and will stay within 1.5-2.0" at 100 yards. Either Lyman's Magic Orange or the 50/50 NRA formula seems to work just fine. No filler.
But, with the Lyman #311316, a nominally 112 gr. semi-wadcutter bullet that is probably quite similar to the soup can bullet, with 4.0 gr. of Unique gives 990 FPS and shoots into 1.0" at 25 yards, using the same sight setting as my 190 gr. full power load. Without a filler, groups are erratic, but with a one fourth square of toilet paper tamped lightly over the powder, shots close up to that one inch level. It's a good small game load out to about 35-40 yards, and I don't have to change sight settings. The only drawback is if you are shooting into the wind, you might catch a little confetti from the TP as the wind blows it back at you. I admit, it's a bit of a pain to put the TP into the case, but the results are well worth the trouble, and there isn't any problem with ringed chambers or barrels.
Paul B.

Well I respect Juniors opinions. I was just trying to get him to understand that the ringed chambers are from improper use of any kind of filler. If I couldn't use a filler I think I would almost quit shooting cast loads, that's how well I've gotten them to perform for me.

Junior, some reloaders will tell you they don't like using fillers in smaller caliber bottleneck cartridges. Here is just a partial list of some of the rounds I've loaded cast and used a kapok or dacron filler: 22 Hornet, 223 Rem, 243 Win, 260 Rem, 7x57 Mauser, 7mm Mag Rem, 30-06, 7.65, 7mm-08, 8x57, 8x56R, 7.7 Jap, 45-70, 32 Win Special, and many more....an no ringed chambers.

Joe