I have little experience with cast bullets beyond the speer 158gr swc bullets I occassionally load for my 357 mag. I have been thinking about using cast bullets in my Marlin 1895G 45-70 and am looking for opinions on which bullet or mold would be a good starting point, as well as what type/ hardness of lead alloy to use. I intend to load the bullets hot.

I use the rifle for hunting Wild Boar and Deer in swamps and mixed pine forests, and Black Bear & boar in the mountains, as well as carrying it as a working rifle on the truck/tractor for the occassional pit bull I catch running deer.

Currently I have been using speers 400gr flatnose softpoint over 50gr of H4198.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

You have the same critters in South Carolina s we do here in Virginia.
I used a 445 grain slug for a lot of years, because it was the most accurate in my 45-70 bolt gun. A boltgun with a good recoil pad is a lot kinder the a lever gun with a steel butt plate.
Any way I found a Saeco 350 grain slug, gas checked that is accurate at most velocities. I cast these myself with great effect. And found them at Custom Cast Bullets. LTD Custom Cast Bullets.
350 grain slug should drop most anything south of Canada.
Jim

This isn't a "hot" load...but I'll post it here for reference...
I use the Lee #90374-405 for my 45/70 Guide Gun.
Plain base bullet. Cast HARD...it drops out @ 390gns. or so. In front of 45gns. IMR 3031 I get 1500 fps. and full body penetration...front to back...on Whitetail. Shots into one BIG ragged hole @ 100 yds. A slightly softer alloy..50/50 WW/linotype drops out @ 400 gns. This is the round I carry in my truck gun around the Okeefenokee swamp, deer and hogs...haven't recovered a bullet yet...they keep going all the way through. Hope this helps...
Cheers,
Don

Trekker--Many folks will attempt to make alloy hardness rocket science. Really it's not. For the size and weight you mention,wheelweights will make bullets that will work on the game you mention. The real trade off is not in the performance,but those heavy slow bullets have a rainbow trajectory--not nearly as flat as a jacketed bullet.

My pet load for the 45-70 is 16.0 gr. SR-4759 with a one grain tuft of Dacron pressed lightly against the powder to hold it next to the primer. Bullet is Lyman's #457122, a 330 gr. hollowpoint bullet. velocity is in the 1600 FPS range. from my 1`895 Marlin, groups at 100 yards are 1.5" and from my Ruger #1, groups are 1.25" on average.
The only drawback with that bullet is hollow point bullets a re more difficult to cast. I size mine to .459".
Paul B.

Forgot to say--many swear by Lee and some at them. In my opinion best value in molds are RCBS.

If you are wanting "hot" cast bullets loads. I would suggest that you look at the gas-checked styles.

If you are looking to save money, shooting just one style of cast bullet, and you do not have any of teh needed equipment yet. Just stay with you Speer bullets. As you will need to shoot tons of cast bullets to break even. If this is for the learning experience, of how to make and shoot great cast bullets, then go for it.


Keith

My main interest in bullet hardness was to get a suggestion on what would be a good compromise between barrel leading and some expansion. At first my casting will be handled with a cast iron pot dipper and mold type set-up but I know myself and I will eventually start casting for other calibers, the 357mag would be an obvious choice.

Trekker--Leading is probably more to do with lube than anything else. Once you cast the bullet you can use a sizer/luber,liquid lube like alox or pan lube. I use a luber/sizer and have never had a leading problem.

Trekker
I'll respectfully disagree with Carpetman as to the cause of leading. Once the bullet is the proper diameter the lube comes into play, if your bullet is too small all the lube in the world won't help.
Pan lubing is a viable entry to lubing, using a sizer/luber is the way to go like Carpetman suggested, it's just a matter of speed and ease of use.
I like the hard lubes, less messy.
Jim

Thank you all for the advise, I was under the impresion that after the velocities rise above a certain range that leading would become more prevalent. I will most likely end up using wheel weights anyhow since the county I work for just trashes them when they take a tire off the rim and the guys in the shop say they would love somebody else to empty that bucket.

Trekker, I have only been playing with cast bullets for about 20 years, and a lot of the men here have been doing it a lot longer, but I would recommend you cast and pan lube, not size... And also, size just enough of the neck of the case to be able to hold the bullet, expand just enough to protect the bullet base when you load, and then crimp. Shooting a BPCR 45-70 with cast has taught me a lot, and probably the simplest way to good accuracy is not to size. And the less you work the case the better off you are, IMHO...

Good luck!

Also while I'm thinking of it, is there anyway to seat a gas check without a luber/sizer? And whats with the difference in price between lee moulds and the others? Alot of my reloading equipment is lee, and there was a price difference but not a 3 to 1 difference. Is the mould quality on par with the rest of their stuff? I know I'm not going to end up spending less, but I'll end up shooting more. The main thing that has me interested in casting is a free lead source, and a DIY mentality.

I have Lymans manual both 47 and 48, but to me they seem to be trying to get you to buy their stuff more than anything else.

One more thing. If that Marlin has micro groove I would definately not size the bullet, or size it larger because the bore on micro groove is bigger then on regular rifling. The micro grooving needs all the help on grabbing that bullet.

For example say it was a 308. Most average 308 barrels have a bore of about .300 and rifling grooves running about .004 deep for a total groove diameter of .308. If it's a micro groove, that total groove may still be .308, but because the micro groove rifling is shallow and narrow, the bore may be large like say .301 or .302. This is more important if the bullet is more of a bore rider type.

Joe

Trekker
In my experience, again my experience, with few notable exceptions, Lee products are an exercise in frustration.
The molds easily fall apart or need replacing with fair frequency.
I started out using Lyman molds, one and two cavity, then moved up to four cavity molds for the pistol bullets. Then I used NEI four cavity molds with great success. Then I found Saeco four cavities which are nearly perfect.
I've had several custom molds made by Mountain molds that are great.
During this journey I've tried various Lee molds and ended up putting them in the recycling bin.
There are others who have great success with Lee molds and other Lee products, I'm just not one of them. It's my failing and lack of patience.
It's a matter of how much aggrevation you are willing to put up with.
Jim

Amen.

Becoming "expert" at fixing cheap LEE molds is an exercise in futility. LEE cannot really hold the .003" total tolerance span they claim to be able to hold and that is JUST TOO BIG A SPREAD to fit a land top rider nose to. Plus they seem to run undersized due to LEE's use of linotype metal to fit every thing they do (unless forced to do otherwise).

Buy LEE, learn to lap --- it's that simple.

Oldfeller

Oldfella
Every once in a while the Devil sneaks up and whispers in my ear. This time it was Becoming an expert at learning how to fix Lee molds so they work is not unlike learning to be an expert in using tire patchs an condums.
Jim

Hey Kelly, see you got your old title back...cool.

Joe

No, it's the same work-around name I've been using. Just indulging in the general LEE bashing a bit, LEE always deserves a little whack every once and a while on general quality principals just to keep the youngsters from thinking they won't have to work on them if they go and buy one of them.

They still will, you know. Buy them. Most getting started can't afford any better.

Kelly

I think one of the best bullets for hunting is the Lee 457-450F. That's the 450gr, not the 405. It casts from my mould at .451" on the nose and .460" on the drive bands. While you can't drive it as fast as the 405gr, you wouldn't need to for the type hunting you're doing. The 450gr should shoot completly through whatever you decided to hunt with it.

I have quiet a few Lee moulds and have had really good luck with them. I wan't say that they will last as long as the Lyman moulds that I have because they want. If you take a little time and tune the Lee moulds (some don't need anything done to them) they cast great bullets. I have 3 of the lee moulds in .457. I have the 405 gr Fp and the hollow point version and the 500 gr. gas check bullet. They all produce accurate bullets.

Does not matter whether you size or not, it's your finished bullet diameter that matters. Should be either bore diameter or not more than .001 over. Also most commercial lubes are too hard to actually do any lubing in the barrel. The reason the commercial makers use the hard lubes is because it does not come of during packaging or shipping. The perfect lube should fly off all at the same time as it leaves the barrel, not partly as to act as an out of balance tire. The pressure ( hence velocity) should be right for the alloy used. The most accurate bullet for my .45-70s so far, have been from my 400 grain Hoch GC mould. I use Either LBT or Apache Blue lube. The easiest to cast from as far as speed and consistancy have been with an older LBT 400 grain Marlin bullet mould. Good shootin'

there is probably not a better overall 4570 mold on the market then the 405 rcbs rfgc mold. Only problem is its casts a tad small for a micro groved gun but if you have a marlin with standard rifling that bullet just plain works.

quote:

Originally posted by Loyd:
I think one of the best bullets for hunting is the Lee 457-450F. That's the 450gr, not the 405. It casts from my mould at .451" on the nose and .460" on the drive bands. While you can't drive it as fast as the 405gr, you wouldn't need to for the type hunting you're doing. The 450gr should shoot completly through whatever you decided to hunt with it.

It is on sale for $16.50 at Lee.
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?=/html/catalog/surplus.html

I cast a 405 grain bullet for my 45-70's. My favorite load is 40.0 grains of Rl7. Velocity is roughly 1600 fps. I do not GC the bullet. Velocity will vary slightly due to differnt rifles. I have not had any leading problems.

I do not like to use fillers. I like good case filling with my hunting loads.

I like the Lyman and RCBS moulds. I have used a couple of Lee moulds in the past. It did not take long for me to get rid of them.

I use straight WW. I am sure some one can explain to you why there mixture of lead is better than mine. And I am sure they are correct. I only shoot my 45-70's out to 300 yards. All of my shooting is off shooting sticks, and most of it is fun shooting. But I promise you any ground hog out to 300 yards is in big trouble(I cheat a little and use a range finder). Tom.

Lloyd, you are certainly right about that RCBS mould, that's what I have.

The fellow that made mention of the bullet being at least bore size or .001 bigger....I think you meant groove size. People need to get bore, groove, land, etc.. correct in order not to confuse folks.

One of the main advantages of using the hard cast over the jacketed bullets is that with the same weight bullet and same powder charge, the hard cast will give you a much faster bullet with less pressure, due to the lower friction of the lead bullet as compared to the copper jacketed bullets.