Any Swede shooters using cast bullets?? Likes, dislikes, problems I should be aware of? Rifle would be a M96.

Thanks.

Alan R -

We had one of Kimber's sporterized 96's (until we blew it up - detonated a light vvn170 load in it) - the gun loved hornady's 160 rn's and any 4350 (i/h/aa) - would put 10 into .8" at 50yrds. But when we looked at it for low velocity lead - it had a very strong preference for 266469's. With them and the best loads it would equal the rn/4350 combination... but it strongly disliked 168gr gc'd lead (don't know lyman number - but looked like a 266324 but with an extra groove at the base) - with them the groupsizes would double (or worse). [Likewise, with the fast twist and jacketed, it didn't like anything under 140gr; and was a money waster with varmint weight jacketed.]

do shoot straight,
greg
www.gmdr.com

Alan, There's an enormous amount of info on the trials and tribulations of shooting cast in the Swede, some here, and tons more in the old shooters archive I'm sure. Do a search.
There's been three custom bullets designed to my knowledge and there's been quite a bit of work done with the Lyman molds as well. It al pretty much boils down to getting a good bullet fit to your guns throat and keeping the speeds down around 1,500 fps or so. BD

Alan, BD's advice is excellent. Before you start searching for bullet molds, sizing dies, etc., slug your bore to determine its size and thus which molds and sizing dies are appropriate. I say this because I and two friends have four Swedes (three M 96's and one M38) and the bores aren't the same: The CB's that work well in their rifles don't do well in mine with one exception, Lyman #268645 (150gr. tapered design, but sadly, out of production). In spite of the various custom molds for the 6.5, even standard designs are somewhat difficult to find. On the other hand, powder choices with CB's are much better: IMR 4227, H/IMR 4198, Accurate Arms XMP 5744, Vihtavuori N133, Alliant Unique, Alliant 2400, etc. Lastly, if you should need, say a .268" dia., consider buying and then lapping out a Lee sizer die. It's not difficult and the results are well worth the ~45 mins. spent on it. Hope this helps, ...Maven

The M96 Carl Gustav Swede is a very "advanced" cast bullet rifle. Please don't go there until you have some experience shooting other cast bullet guns.

Everything in those 6.5 rifles are "touchy" and must be "just so" for good performance. Speeds you can achieve accuracy at are limited to below 1,800 fps by your very fast 6.5 twist rate that the Carl Gustav Armory used on those M96 Swede rifles.

I would recommend starting out in cast shooting at a .308" diameter or larger if you want to maximize your early results and minimize all your frustrations. These rifles will all be 10 twist or slower barrels (cast friendly).

8mm (10 twist rate) is noted as a "good cast bullet shooting" bore-size by just about everyone who has shot both the 6.5, 7mm and 8mm military rifle bore sizes.

On the commercial side, you can't go wrong with a .308 bore size (or larger).

Oldfeller

Thanks to all for your input.

The only problem with the Swedes, I had an M38, is the bore size. Cast bullets must be groove diameter or slightly over to work, but most 6.5 bullets and moulds are made .264" wheras the european nominal size is just over .266". My M38 was .2685". I used the NEI 264-160gc but had to lap it out to .270 for it to work. From then on it was plain sailing. I believe Lyman do a mould that is specifically for the swede and a Lee one is offered by midsouth shooters supply as a custom job.

"The M96 Carl Gustav Swede is a very "advanced" cast bullet rifle. Please don't go there until you have some experience shooting other cast bullet guns.

Everything in those 6.5 rifles are "touchy" and must be "just so" for good performance. Speeds you can achieve accuracy at are limited to below 1,800 fps by your very fast 6.5 twist rate that the Carl Gustav Armory used on those M96 Swede rifles.

I would recommend starting out in cast shooting at a .308" diameter or larger if you want to maximize your early results and minimize all your frustrations. These rifles will all be 10 twist or slower barrels (cast friendly).

8mm (10 twist rate) is noted as a "good cast bullet shooting" bore-size by just about everyone who has shot both the 6.5, 7mm and 8mm military rifle bore sizes.

On the commercial side, you can't go wrong with a .308 bore size (or larger)". sez old fart.

The mutterings of the defeated. Comdey really, making cast shooten sound like rocket science. LMFAO...

Alan the likes of Paul, Andrew, BD, et al have you well advised. I'd emphasize finding your groove dia is very important as undersized cast shoots poorly especially in a the fast twist calibers. One variant I've often posted is shooten a ww alloy slug thru slowly and catching it in a blundle of say soft, old blankets. Clean such and the bore and push that sample thru the bore from the muzzle to determine the tight/loose areas in that bore. This tells the story of the potential of a cast gun. Larger at the muzzle is about the worst-- very tight otta the chamber area is likewise a large negative. Tight areas can be firelapped out using my technique to isolate just that area. Polish your bore if rough, shooten at least two thou over groove [given adequate loaded neck dia/clearance], if possible fit your forward driver on the bullet to the throating, load the slug to engage the rifling and start conservatively on the fps. Something in the speed range of Blue Dot, 2400 or 4759 is a good starting point. Enjoy!

Alan,



"Victory" with a Swede 96 (Carl Gustav) is a relative thing. You will need to get a larger than normal bullet and size it to .2675"-.2680 to tightly fit the Mil-Spec Mauser specified throats that are out there in every one of those Carl Gustav guns.



Note: people who keep talking about variation in bore size in the bores of a Carl Gustav have little experience with them. The Swedes are very consistent in their bore wall diameter at .264" and the Swedish Military checked and regraded their rifling land wear and the throat erosion level on that oversized military throat every time the gun was pulled into the armory and re-issued. That is what the stamped brass circle medallion on the stock is all about.



Then you will do a powder/load selection to best suit your particular rifle and the cast bullet that you pick. Likely your best accuracy range will still fall around 1,650 fps - 1,750 fps in the Carl Gustav no matter what bullet weight or format that you wind up picking.



After investing in a custom (oversized) mold and a custom sizer and doing the development work for your gun you will wind up with the same 1,800-1,900 fps "speed ceiling" that everyone else has with the Carl Gustavs at the 140 grain & up bullet weights.



If you pick a heavy bullet you can hunt deer reliably at those circa 1,650 - 1,700 fps accurate Carl Gustav speeds. An example of such a bullet is this one (yes, it's mine).



http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/so_moulds_6.5mm_swed.asp



Now, owning the gun same gun that you have and having been through the twist wars several times with it I am not all that enthusiastic that you can go faster than 1,800 fps with that particular bullet (for example) at 1 1/2" 100 yard group size accuracy level when shooting a Carl Gustav. The very very best shots we know about also topped out about at that speed shooting it in a Carl Gustav.



No, only a few exceptionally good riflemen shoot that well consistently, and it takes a 9 twist rate gun (which you don't have) to get that level of accuracy at mildly increased speeds on a totally reliable basis shooting any cast bullet.



Sorry to have to be a bit overly honest with you, but I actually own your gun and have lots of experience shooting it (unlike some who would be amused to give you their opinions out of thin air, neither owning a Carl Gustav nor having shot cast bullets out of one).



Now, if you have a choice about it for your first cast bullet gun, a 10 twist rate .308 or larger caliber rifle is still a much friendlier cast bullet shooter, expecially if you are just starting out. An 8x57 is an excellent inexpensive 10 twist rate gun that performs very well with cast bullets with a bare minimum of development work, and at speeds right on up into the 2,200-2,400 fps range.



Heck, you can actually buy lubriciser dies outright at the sizes that you really need in the .308 caliber & 8mm calibers, unlike the 6.5 Carl Gustav which will be custom "opened up" work to get a throat-fitting lubriciser die.



Oldfeller

What none of these guys have told you sraight out, is the Swede with cast bullets generates more cussing and hair pulling than any other caliber. I've got three of them, and they will only do, what they will do. They are definitely in the advanced course for cast bullets.

Gentlemen -

Your input has been invaluable...thank you. I have not purchased the M96...just querying whether it would make a good cast bullet rifle choice. I believe I have my answer. I have an '06 I can use to get my feet wet with cast loads...I believe I will start there.

Next step is to read-up on how to slug a barrel and determine best COL for lead bullet loads.

Well I am glad you guys posted this as I have a Gustav Swede that I was going to buy a mould and dies for. I think I will still buy the dies but stick with jacketed bullets after reading your comments. I have a 45/70 and a 8mm and several 30 calibers to cast for so I guess that will keep me busy. Jim

I do believe the quick rate of twist will cause skidding of a cast boolit. Maybe loaded very slow would cure it. I have one that will hold 1/2" groups all day with jacketed. Never tried lead. I am curios as to what guys have found.