I just finished making about 100 pounds of wheel weights into ingots. And I also melted about 50 pounds of retrieved bullets from the local shooting range that the EPA had the state dig out of the ground. I didn't do any fluxing as of yet. Just scraped the sides of my pot and skimmed the top with a table spoon clamped in some vise grips. The ingots look nice and shiney but am going to put about a marble size chunk of candle wax in when I remelt the ingots to cast for conicals. Hope I don't run into any of the pitting problems I've read about here on the forum tonite. What I need to know is, when I open up my mould and tap the bullet out by tapping with a wooden "tapper" on the pivot area of my handles, what do I need to have underneath for the conical to fall on? I've heard one can use a towel but I would think that might tend to catch on fire. Also heard of a five gallong bucket of water and by the time the bullet hits the bottom of the bucket it is cool (and smaller than the cast size). That part I will have to see when my smokepole arrives and I can mike the barrel and the finished conicals. One last question-I've also heard that the bullets should be .001 to .002 thousands larger than the bore. Is this correct? Thanks for the help, Mike

ive used a towel for years with no trouble. I dont like water dropping you get to many inconsistancys in bullet hardness depending on how cool the bullet gets before its dropped. I also dont like water dropping because the bullets get to brittle. I like to get my hardness by proper alloying.

I drop my round balls for my TC muzzleloader onto either a towel or a cardboard box. Never had any problems either way. I use as pure a lead mix as I can get for the muzzleloader. I don't have a hardness tester but check to see that I can scratch the lead with my thumbnail.

Like Lloyd, I do not drop bullets from the mold into water for the same reasons he stated. If I need harder bullets, I oven treat them and quench them all at once.
What I normally use to drop my bullets in is an old desk drawer with the bottom lined with a layer of foam rubber that has been covered with an old towel. Works just fine. The hot lead bullets may slowly place mild burn marks on a towel, but they won't stay hot enough to catch fire. I've never had that happen yet, and I've been casting for almost 50 years.
For hunting, I use the bullets at the hardness the alloy casts. For target purposes, I oven treat and water quench. it's more work, but I believe accuracy is improved.
Paul B.

[ 07-09-2003, 21:37: Message edited by: Paul B ]

WHATEVER you do, keep water as far away from any pots of molted lead as humanly possible! In case no one has told you, one drop of water dropped into molten metal will instantly turn to steam creating enough pressure to blow the entire contents of the pot up and out onto anything and everything within a wide radius, including you! When much younger, I was witness to one of these affairs and its effects and truly do not recommend it. It is almost impossible to imagine the speed and severity of one of theses events. I have been casting for thiry years without true injury, but have been hyper about safety after seeing that accident. It can be tons of fun and plenty safe, just take care.

Almost forgot, take special care in fall and winter about bringing ingots or scrap in from the cool outdoors into the warm shop and dropping them into the lead pot. Condensation from the cooler material will provide all the water needed for a really nasty event.

Thanks for the advice on the towel. That's the way I will go. And Blackhawk 44 that was some VERY enlightening information on the cold weather to hot pot senerio. That just may have saved my bacon as I will be storing the ingots in my work shop outside which is basically unheated. I will definitely preheat them in the house for a couple of days before casting. Every time I read a response like you guys have posted here, I wonder how many arms, legs, eyes, and possibly lives have been saved in the past by the posts here on AR. It restores one's faith in his fellow man to see the concerned and knowledgable replies. Thanks, Mike

I'd like you all to do a little experiment. Get your lead pot full outside where it is safe. After it is fully melted, stand back twenty feet or so, and squirt a squirt gun across the pot. Do five gallons or so worth of water if you want, and have nothing else to do. There will be no exploding pot. It don't happen that way.

Want to see it explode? Get a wheel weight, and dip it in water. Let it get visibly dry. Then, on a twenty foot pole, drop it into the melt. The weight will go under the surface, along with any moisture that will surely be left under the clip. This will cause an immediate and violent steam explosion of the pot.

This is what causes a pot explosion. Water on the surface will dance and evaporate. Water under the surface expands in the extreme, and will empty your pot, on you, and around your work area.

So yes, be careful, just be aware of what you are being careful OF!

One thing to watch out for is that your padding must be a natural material. Freshly cast bullets will melt synthetics and stick to them. Found that out trying to use a carpet remnant for padding.

I use a wooden box sized after a beer flat to catch my bullets. Cardboard beer flats are the right size, but they tend to fold up on you when you try to pick them up with about 30 pounds of bullets in them.

I do my casting in winter by a wood stove but store my ingots in an unheated area. The ingots I am going to use in an evening get put on the top of the stove. After they have been there a half hour or more, there's no reason to worry about moisture.

I do my smelting in decent weather outside in 200 pound batches. A bucket of WW goes into the pot, the propane gets lit, and I retire to a discreet distance for half an hour. If it pops some, so be it. I ain't there to get hurt.

[ 07-09-2003, 16:25: Message edited by: Leftoverdj ]

harley taught me to drop cast bullets right out of the mould into an inclined card board pop flat. cut the sprue and drop them from not too far up onto it and let em roll down. always works great for me.

THE 2ND AMENDMENT PROTECTS US ALL..........

BY THE WAY I JUST GOT BACK IN AFTER THE SERVER CHANGE, GOOD THING TOO. I WAS STARTING TO GET WITHDRAWAL SIMPTOMS.......

Four Tails, When bringing metal in that has been stored outside, especially metal that has any wrinkles or pits in it, I like to gently caress the metal with the flame of a propane torch before adding it to the pot. Also, if you start with a cold pot, the moisture will be evaporated before the metal melts, but that only works for the first potful! Hope this helps, curmudgeon

Curmudgeon, I posted this question on another topic on this forum. I cast some .458 bullets that are for gas checks to see if this mould also would not cut the sprue off the mould. Not only did the sprue cutter go through the lead like butter but maybe just a little too easy. The end of the bullets just below where the sprue cutter wacks them off looks like it is crystallized and there is a slight crack about 1/16th inch below the base of the bullet. Do I need to reclean my mould again? I used gun scrubber to clean off the oil and whatever when I first got it (used)? And I found that if the lead was not hot enough it was too hard to cut so I didn't push the issue. Thanks again, Mike

Four Tails,

When I get this when casting 500+ grain bullets for the 45-70, it usually means I am cutting the sprue too hot. there should be some resistance when cutting the sprue, when it cuts like butter it usualy has the same consistency, and, you're ripping out chunks of half-solifidied material instead of making a clean cut. Wait a bit longer before cutting the sprue (making it harder to cut, true), and you will see a nice, clean cut.
This is one reason why I usually use 2 moulds when casting these big ones - gives the other enough time to cool without slowing down the production rate.

Thanks a bunch. I'll give it a try tomorrow or the next day and let you know. Mike

Four Tails, I use only Bee's Wax when casting and when casting M/L rounds I use only pure lead. The Wheel Weights are reserved for centre-fire only.
Sprue cutting,watch the lead on top of the mold,when it turns frosty it is ready to cut. If it seems to take to long to go frosty then the lead might be to hot.
I agree with the others about wet lead going into the pot,I have never had a accident and don't want to. derf

Went down to one of the local scrap metal salvage yards yesterday and picked up some plumbers lead (pipe). Melted it down and cast it into ingots and am waiting for Lyman to give me the answer as to whether my .54 cal mould is still serviceable or if I have to purchase a new one. Should know something in a week or two. In the meantime I think I'll pick up some more plumbers lead if that is what is considered "pure" lead for shooting muzzle loaders?

Yup,and another good source is roofers lead sheeting. Shucks,you'll be an expert in no time atall. derf

Howdy!

Drop them on towels, if you're casting rifle bullets and are really picky about consistency.

For handgun bullets, I get a coffee can, fill it about 1/2 full with water, and place a towel over it. Cut a small hole in the middle of the towel, and secure it with water.

Reason for this is because under normal circumstances you won't be shooting handgun bullets at such a range where accuracy will be affected, one way or the other.

If you want to push them fast (above 1000 fps) a gas check is highly recommended.

Also, don't mix in range scrap with your alloy. The consistency is too unpredictable. Straight wheelweights make a good intermediate bullet, and when you quench them they become hard enough for practical use. How hard? I have driven bullets into bowling pins at 50 yards, using a 250 grain Keith LSWC, on 8.5 of Unique, with Federal primers. I use a good roll crimp; my bullets are sized to .430, and usually lubed with Javelina Alox.

Good luck with casting! May I suggest that you invest in a Star Lubrisizer. Best money I've spent.

Also, check out Rooster Laboratories liquid lube. Pour a bunch of bullets in, swish them around, pour them out onto waxed paper ot a board, let them dry and cure for 72 hours.

I know a bunch of Bullseye shooters and one commercial loader who swear by it.

I drop mine into a bucket full of cold water with a folded towel on the bottom to pad the fall. This acts to give the wheelweight bullets a little extra hardness via "heat-treating", but not as much hardness as if you heated them in an oven at 460 degrees for two hours before quenching.

Hey Fourtails!! DON'T USE WHEELWEIGHT METAL FOR ML BULLETS!! It's TOO HARD!!

[ 07-24-2003, 18:50: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Hi, I appreciate the info on not using the wheel weights in muzzle loaders. I'm going to use them in "Mzinga", my .458 cal Winchester Custom Safari Express downloaded. Glutten for punishment, huh? And, that's in the future a ways as now I am working on getting my new toy going. The 1 in 60 inch twist barrel from Mid-South Shooters should be here in a week or so (they had to special order it from Lyman). I also found out I was not getting the lead nearly hot enough on the 500 grain bullets and that was why they were crazing on the ends and having the small crack close to the end. I am always trying to save a buck here and there but looks like I need to purchase a thermometer to assure getting 900 plus degrees. Kinda hard to tell just by sticking your finger in there and feeling. Any advice on this patch and ball that may not be common knowledge is always appreciated. Can I take an 18 inch piece of round brass stock and a fishing sinker just a little large than my new barrel to slug it to find its true diameter? I've heard putting the stock in the barrel and pushing the sinker in with a dowel. Then tapping the sinker out with the brass stock sliding it back and forth, should get it out. Gotta go, later. Mike

fourtails - you shouldn't have to get anywhere near 900 degrees for wheel weights or other lead scrap. 650-750 should be plenty. At 900 degrees and above you could begin getting some increased toxic fumes from your mix and it will tend to oxidize quickly at the surface. I think the tin tends to come out on the surface also, making it harder to get a consistent bullet... My Lyman 457125 likes around 725 degrees or so and it is a pretty large bullet.

I did some unscientific testing of my lead temperature (without my thermometer that is back ordered). I turned my heat way down and started moulding my round balls for the .54 cal barrel and IF I did a good job pouring I ended up with what I think are some pretty durn good bullets. This is with pure lead. And about the HOT temperature separating the tin from the lead on the wheel weights; well, thats's why those sprues were so hard to cut and it also explains why the left over sprue had a "tin" sound when came together. Kind of tinkled! Last nite I got the 1 in 32 twist zeroed in a fifty yards with the conicals and am going to work on the patch and ball for the 1 in 60 twist barrel hopefully when I get back into town. Thanks all for the help and I'll keep you posted on the round ball results. This is now starting to become alot of fun! Mike