I am looking for a lube recipe for minimizing smoke level.
The lube will be used for plain cast bullets, semi automatic pistol, calibers; 9mm, .38 super auto, .40 S&W, and .45ACP.
Targets are placed at 50 yards maximum and it is required an acceptable accuracy for 400 shoots without cleaning.
It would be necessary that recipe components be the basic ones; such as beeswax, parafine, automotive oils or greases,etc.
Comercial products like Crisco, Cosmolene, Ivory Soap are not available where I live but, I can get sodium sterate,for example.
The recipe could be a hard lube, I have a Lyman 450 sizer luber with heater.(I see all comercial hard lubes claim low smoke level,Lyman Orange Magic, Rooster Red, Red Angel).
There are solutions like, jacketed, cooper plated,painted bullets, gas checks etc. but they are more expensive and less amusing than preparing lubes and testing them.
�Has anyone got some recipe or guidelines to work on?

Thanks for your help.

Sounds like a job for FWFBL. The recipe is on Castpics.com. Mike

I have been using the same lube for 40 years and it has never failed me. Take some yellow beeswax and add enough Vaseline to make soft enough to work though your lube-sizer. I don't have exact porportions, but 75/25 sounds about right. I go by color (cafe con leche). It if is too hard add a little more Vaseline. You don't want this so hard you have to use a heater. If you have a micro wave oven put the stuff in a glass jar and give it a series of 1 min. shots until is melts and runs together. You want to go at it slow as it can catch fire if you don't watch it. You can then take the melted lube (use some hand protection) and pour it into the sizer. Replace the collar and let harden. Put a lid on the jar and renuke it every time you need a refill. This hard worked for me for a very long time.

50% beeswax, 30% parafin, 20% STP oil treatment
Add crayon for color as it is almost clear.

An long time bullseye shooter gave me this in 1982.
Low smoke and no heater needed if air temp is 70� or above. No leading problems if boolet fits properly.

A 1 lb. block of beeswax to start with plus other ingredents per above makes enough to last a looooooong time, cause I'm still using some of it.

Calamity Jake

FWFL is hard to beat if you can find the stuff to make it

[ 08-21-2003, 20:48: Message edited by: Calamity Jake ]

Thanks for your prompt answers.
Let me be more specific. I shoot rapid fire in open ranges. Sun rays reflect on smoke and makes impossible to see multiple targets when sun rising.

Mike:I read several considerations and purposes of Famous World Felix Bullet Lube on Castpics;accurate for long range shoots, apliccation in low and high temperatures,tight groups versus LBT, etc. but I did not find considerations about smoke. It will be great to know if FWFBL produces low smoke level or, which component should I increase/decrease.(I also read many messages in talk.shooter from Felix, Sundog, Waksupi,Curmudgeon,et. If I skipped someone about smoke, please, let me know).

Chargar;I tried with beeswax and vaseline but 85/15. Vaseline seems to produce less smoke than other components. I will try 50/50 in a double boiler. (My wife could kill me if the microwave catch fire,we would have morning cafe con leche con medialunas nevermore).

Calamity Jake;I tried with the C.E.Harris recipe ; 30% beeswax, 30% parafin, 30% vaseline, 10% motor Oil(I used Shell Spyrax 80w/90 heavy duty for gear boxes).Smoke level is below standard lubes but it is not low enough.
I will try with STP .
One more time, thanks for your answers, I apologise to answer all in the same message but I do not find how to answer individually.
BA Shooter

If you want the least smoke, and the price is still right, I would recomend the liquid film lube from Rooster Labs or Corbin swaging.
The guys from the BE list are getting great results with Rooster's dry film lube, but Rooster says it is limited to 1000 fps. Corin Dry lube good to 1200 fps.
They dry to a thin, hard film. - lew

Thanks Lew
I will go to Rooster and Corbin web sites to learn a little more.
But I could not import from Rooster or Corbin, it would be very expensive, they do not have Commercial Representants in my country.
I am looking for a homemade recipe or guidlines to work on.
�how can I reach BE lists information?

BA Shooter

This is the site for Corbin dry lube.
http://www.corbins.com/chemical.htm
They list their lube to 1400+.

Rooster Laboratories in Kansas City, Missouri, USA does not have a web site.
I could get you their phone number.
They list their lube to 1000 fps.

I just do not know if they alone will handle the velocities you want to shoot.
You could try using your standard(try Thompson's Blue Angel) lube, and putting a coating of this dry lube on top of your lubed and sized bullets.

Be sure and let the lube dry hard, ~one day. - Lew
- Lew

BAShooter, Not to put too fine a point on it, but are you sure your lube is causing ALL your smoke? Maybe a switch in powder will help? Would be worth a try. How about Lee's alox tumble-lube? The base of the bullet could be cleaned fairly easily, to prevent vaporization of the lube on the base. I can't say I've done much testing on this, but it seems to me, that a dry lube would smoke less than a greasy one.>>>>>>>>Bug.

I can understand your problem having lived in South America (Ecuador) for some years. Not much in the way of shooting sports and therefore not much in the way of shooting sport supplies such as lube. It would be easy for some of us to buy what you want and mail it to you, but if you have as much "trametes" (red tape) as we had, it just is not worth the effort. In Ecuador it would take at least one half day to get something out of Postal Customs and if you did not get the package out, then your regular mail delivers was held up. I always thought if you really hated somebody in that country and lived elsewhere, the perfect way to take out your hate, would be to drop a cheap handtowel in the mail every day to that person. Anyway..Good luck in your search and I think you are on the right track. I have never noticed smoke being a problem with my beeswax and vaseline mix.

BA Shooter, The good news is that both LBT Blue and Lyman Orange Magic lubes work well, particularly at higher velocities, and produce low levels of smoke to boot. The bad news is that they are expensive enough here, export prices can only be higher. In view of this and perhaps their availability [in Argentina], the home-brewed recipes seem to be the better alternative. ...Maven

Hi there

Visit
web page on lubes

Also, visit www.hanned.com and pay $5 for a 33 page text on making lubes. (I don't have it, but I think I'm going to get it -- only risking $5!)

They have some recipes that don't look hard to make, and from products that you can get locally. I'm in Sweden, and I'm going to have go the same route as you due to shipping costs and troubles exporting from the US.

jpb

[ 08-24-2003, 15:37: Message edited by: jpb ]

Lew:
Thanks for the advise, I haven�t thought about a dry lube.
I visited the Corbin web site and they talk about a "solvent carrier synthetic wax liquid" and claim 1400 feets/sec. It would be enough for 9 mm, .40 S&W and .45ACP. It could be borderline for .38 super auto but I will have 75% of the problem solved.
Corbin and Thompson`s Blue Angel are unknown in Argentina.
Only Lyman Liquid Alox is known . I will start with my standard hard lube and, on top, Lyman Liquid Alox.
If you have any idea of what the Corbin is made of, it will help a lot.
Thanks a lot
BA Shooter

Bug:
Thanks for your answer. As I wrote to Lew I haven�t thought in dry lube, I will try with Lee Liquid Alox as you also recommend me.
If Lee Liquid Alox works OK, it looks easy to home made.
Regarding the smoke caused by the powder, I have an acceptable smoke level when I use jacketed or cooper plated bullets. Moreover, I shooted bullets without lube and the smoke disappears(here the problem is quantitative, I reached 25 shoots with acceptable accuracy and I would need 100, at least).
But powder is important, for example, I reload with a domestic powder which has wide variations from one batch of production to another.
As imported powders are very expensive, we have to use this powder mandatory. The way to solve it ; when a production batch is good enough, we buy 4 or 5 cans of this batch.

BA Shooter

Hello Chargar.

Thanks for your comprehension and for offering to mail me the products but, I want to develope a homemade lube. There are two reasons you will sure understand:
1) The landed cost, paying tax and import duty of a Lyman Alox stick, imported from the USA, is the same as the cost of half can of domestic powder (a can of 1/2 kilo which is more than 1 pound)
2) If I�d buy the lube, I could lost the joy of testing different recipes and , the satisfaction to reach the goal .
Currently,I use cooper plated bullets for competitions and plain cast bullets for training, first reason is solved, so, at the end of the day, the second becomes the most important.
It`s cool to know that the word "tramite" is also used in Ecuador.
Until one of these days si Dios quiere
BA Shooter

Maven.
Thanks for the good news and the others.
It is important to know that both, LBT Blue and Lyman Orange, produce low level smoke.
Lyman claims the Orange Magic is specifically for action pistol.
Both are expensive, the cost of Lyman stick is the same as the cost of 1/2 can of powder.
Some riflemen use LBT in Argentina, I do not know where they buy it, but I was told it is more expensive than Lyman stick.
You shooted the centre of the target regarding the need to get a home-brewed recipe.
I had a Lyman Orange stick in my hands, it had such a nice perfume that it was impossible to guess what the hell is it made of.
Best regards
BA Shooter

Hello jpb
I visited the "web page on lubes". It has good information.
I already have the Lube List, third edition, 2002.
It is really a great work of Mr. Ralph Schneider.
He compiles all the lubes,ordered by the names they are known and composition, if available.
Raw materials are also ennumerated by alphabetical order indicating; effects produced on lubes, characteristics, different names used for the raw material
Moreover, I wrote a letter to Mr. Schneider about a recipe for minimzing smoke. He kidly answer his best advice about the recipes of his list and my recipe.
The Lube List is an excelent material for learning about lubes ,to have an actual dimension of how many lubes exist and for consulting when a doubt happens.
Thanks for the info and have a niceday.
BA Shooter

Finally, I could make several tests last weekend.
TEST CONSIDERS ONLY SMOKE produced by each lube,when shooting in rapid fire, under disfavourable sun-wind conditions.
I am sure all lubes recommended by you have very good main characteristics.This let me work on sound basis because I know that I will have no problems of leading,accuracy, etc. when I find a low smoke lube.
I do not run any test regarding these characteristics

1)RECIPES BY SMOKING LEVEL
(all percentages as weight)

HIGH SMOKE LEVEL
- 70%Beeswax / 30%Lithium grease.
- Lyman Alox (stick)

LOW SMOKE LEVEL
Less smoke than the above mentioned
- Lymam Orange Magic
- 30%Beeswax /30%Parafine/30%Vaseline/10%SAE90 gearbox (C.E.Harris)
- 75%Beeswax /25%Vaseline (Chargar recom.)
- 70%Parafine /30%Vaseline.
- 60%Parafine /25%Vaseline/ 15%Lithium grease(Paco Kelly s concept:all mineral).
- FWFL as per Caspicts(Sodium stearate,no Ivory)
All of these lubes presented similar smoking level

BEST RESULTS
(Slightly less smoke than Low Smoke)

- 50%Beeswax/ 30%Parafine/ 20%STP(CalmityJ recom)
- 33%Beeswax/ 33%Parafine/ 33%Vaseline (Harris without lube)
- 80%Beeswax/ 20% pig lard/a minute of Moly Powder.

2)REDUCING LUBE QUANTITY

Bullets used for testing are .40 plain cast bullets, round nose, 200 grains, with only one lube groove. Speed 850/900 feets per second.

I lubed only a half of the groove, a semicircunference, trying to minimize lube quantity.
There were no significative smoke reduction versus lubing all the groove. (Tests were run with FWFL and Beeswax/Lard lube).

3 NEXT STEPS
Smoke produced by best cases is too much enough, so I will continue testing:
=Test FWFL with half of lanoline.
= Prepare something with Neatsfoot oil, it seems to be the component of Corbin lube which gave good results to BE List members(lewisgoldstein)

Any consideration about the above results or guidelines to follow will be appreciated.
Thanks for your help.

BA Shooter

Thanks for posting the results of your tests. It is all quite interestng. Keep it up and let us know. Have fun in the process.

Queston...How do you distinguish between the smoke produced by the lube and the smoke produced by the powder? All smokless powders I have fired do produce some smoke/haze/vapor in various degrees.

Hello Chargar.

Good question. I can not distinguish powder smoke from lube smoke.
I only try to maintain powder smoke at a constant, very low level.
How can I get a constant, very low level, of powder smoke?
I always use the same powder,(a domestic version of Unique), from the same batch (I bought several cans).
The batch was previously selected due to consistancy and low smoke level.
Moreover,all tests are run with the same powder load, same bullet, same bullet sizing diameter, same overall length.

I also run tests maintaining all these conditions but, without lube. The smoke level is very very low, same as jacketed or cooper plated bullets.

If I could get only the half smoke level between no lube and the current level, but, all tested lubes are very far from this.

Your idea of calling my attention about powder smoke is totally valid, there are batchs of the same powder that produce same quantity of smoke as any lube. I do not know why, but it happened to me.
First stage of an IPSC match, sun rising in the morning, no wind, beside a wall, with cooper plated bullets, three pepper-popers to shoot in line, first shoot, first pepper knock down, and the other two disappeared behind a white, cotton cloud of smoke. Reason: smoky powder.

Thanks for your attention.

BA Shooter