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Quote: SC's Lars. This length will not fit into a DC or 6 cav. | ||
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 OK-- we've got the drawing up. Thanks to trk/Tim for the nice job drawing! Bullet has: --.62 of bearing surface length --.40 of actual metal to the bore at larger than groove dia. --Ballistic Coefficent should exceed .50 Shooten will tell. If you want to order one let me know thru the PM channel. Thanks to all, Jay | |||
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Aladin That looks great! Just want to make certain that I am on "the list". What's the time line for production? Resp'y, Bob S. | ||
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Will this be a run of Lee 6 cavity molds or what? | |||
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Post deleted by Oldfeller | |||
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Quote: Bob I'll be contacting Doug again this week at Lee and find out scheduling. I surely hope to get them cut in Jan. Methinks your in the group e list I'll check. When I get specific dates lined up everyone will get an e plus posting on this site. That group you asked about was a 3 shot-- the 600 yd next to it is the five shooter. About all I've done of late is plinking at 600. | |||
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Quote: Glad you asked about the grooves Oldfeller. The slanting back to the next driver is to aid lube flow due to the inerita of acceleration. Lube stuck down in the square bottom grooves at exit isn't of doing the job intended, rather just expelled and often even carried to the target. This lube groove design is lifted from Veral Smith. It's very similar to what he cut on my LBT SP1R. I have lengthened the slant run somewhat, but the principle far as I know originated from him. The 329 mold of mine has similar edges on the drivers and releases and casts with ease. This design will do same. | |||
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"1) "look right" and 2) have more scraper capacity to handle mil-surp powder left-over bore residues" writes Oldfeller. Oldfeller I don't buy into any scraper theory. Like I've said previously, a bullet makes the bore trip in 2-5 thousandths of a second-- methinks scraping action isn't what's happening. Or not to a degree which can modified much changing this design. Drawing a spitzer design is simplicity herself. --your married to ogive length and form to get BC --shooten any speed requires minimum of 2 calibers of bearing surface --put enough lube capacity on to satisfy the customers and it's a wrap. We coulda went with less but it isn't really a significant factor per amount Your point about shank length. Every 30 caliber design I've shot or seen has nothing over .10-- some less. The LBT SP1R I shooten to very high speeds isn't even .10 in length. The prototype recut 329 is less than .10 too. I did give this feature alot of thought. I'd change shank configuration in another way but that's for another time. No sense trying much radical here-- no reason to this will shooten. One more. I have shot 311644 extensively with a lot number of checks which fit the shank so perfectly no lube, or about none-- fit between the check and the driver. That lot number of checks set all my personal 'BESTS' shooten that bullet in my Hart stainless heavy barreled 06. That chamber had normal specs for neck dia too. I've attempted to cover ALL the bases.... we're gonna see! Ooops-- forgot price. I dunno for sure yet. If I go thru a FFL like you suggested I'd think the 14-15 sans shipping for each unit. But that's not FIRM by any means till I know for sure. | |||
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Aladin Put me down for one of these molds. Jim | |||
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Quote: Your down for one Jim. Send me your e addy in a PM for the group notices please. Thanks, Jay | |||
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Post deleted by Oldfeller | |||
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Appreciate the input Oldfeller. I just heard the news myself and sure the H hope it quiet's that area. My nephew BTW is carrying a machine gun over there.... a reserve-ist. I loose sleep. So does my sister..... his mom. Nuff... | |||
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PM on the way. Guys, don't rush him on the cost just yet. There are a lot of logistic's that need to be worked out first. Like how many are interested, spread any setup fee among those folk, before you even get to shipping and handling. Be patient, "If you built it they will come!"  | |||
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I'll hang with Oldfeller, I believe he is right. I think NO BS aka aladin is just having this mould made so he can have a high BC cast bullet to shoot at his 600 yds target and he needs you all to pile on (which you are) to buy one so it can be affordable to him. Starpaddle as NO BS calls me | |||
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Quote: And what's wrong with that? Aladin is doing the work and I'm willing to bet my $20 that his design will be workable for me. I won the bet on the 170 Oldfeller and on the six banger 113. One of these days, I'll lose, but I won't get pissed about it. | |||
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I go along with Leftoverdj, there is a little bit of art along with a chance it won't work in your application when you design a bullet. I have had very good luck with most of these "custom" bullet molds that LEE has produced on a limited run. It's a hell of alot cheaper than calling up one on the custom mold makers and opening your wallet and saying "here take a bunch of big bills". I have no doubt this design will work for me, it may not be perfect, but then what is in this life. Just my thoughts, Ed B | |||
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Well now. Let's think this through. It seems that some folks are saying that aladin and trk are conspiring to get a group of unsuspecting fools to subsidize them. To orchestrate this fraud upon us dummies, they spent many hours in the design details and prototype testing. In the most sneaky way imaginable, they then posted everything they'd done and planned to do here and on other forums. Even worse, they accepted comments from people not involved in the project. I mean, this boarders on criminal! After all that, they had the unbelievable audacity to actually make some design decision based on their own experience rather than what some kibbitzing bystanders preferred. The nerve! Now, after putting in 20 or 30 hours of work on the project, they're ready to spring the trap on us idiots, and they might even save themselves $50 or so by FORCING us to buy their molds, that we don't even want. Get a rope. | |||
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I have no idea what your referring too per some bs thang. I do not read your posts. I am going to say what you normally post isn't worth my time-- and I do not mean a flame. Just usually the content isn't specific with much to do about cast shooten. If you have a problem with that... I do not care. If you have an issue with me, come to my front door by appointment or make arrangements to meet me in person. We'll get things squared. | |||
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Quote: Grumble well written-- my first really good chuckle of the say. Thanks. Yeup get the 'rope' but make sure it's stout. My carcuss is 6'3" or so and close to three bills right now so some strength is important. Now I wonder what MY BC would be falling from what height?? Say 10' at 33 fps.... | |||
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Quote: I can say about your posts. Most of the time they are all about you, how you impress or out shoot other shooters at the range or how you disagree with everyone that has alot more knowledge about cast bullets then you ever will. You're a know it all. Try to find one of my post that isn't about cast bullets on this forum, after all why would I post jacketed reloading here? Yes you will find some political stuff or joking along with everyone else. So you're wrong about what you said in that first paragraph. I will agree that maybe my post don't have the ingredients to interest you. I did noticed though you didn't have anything to say about my post on my CZ 550 shooting a 10 shot one ragged hole group with the 314299 or my 500 yard shooting of the Brazilian 98 Mauser in 7x57 with cast. You want to see how good you shoot, come on down here to TN, I'll be glad to show you and you sure won't be bragging your fat ass here about it. As for the second part of your quote...pure waste of my time and energy. | |||
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TRK- how do I get my WW boolits to turn out purple like in your pic?  I'm in for one. I think they look good. I just wish it could be made in the better quality 6 cav mold. Would the single cavity give more consitent results on the target? Or is there enough difference between the different cavities in the same mold to cause much of a problem? | |||
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"As for the second part of your quote...pure waste of my time and energy" So your a coward? All mouth? Your way off base my fine moronic friend. Come to my door... meet me in person. I'll straighten you out. Words and accussations carry consequences... read the disclaimer to join here. Your responsible for yourself-- whoever that is. Keep that foremost in your ? Why I bother with some garbage like such.... Someone clued me in to 'as the star-paddle turns'. I would think anyone understands why I don't read anything posted by such. Now show or shut up. | |||
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Quote: Tim could you make the bullet sorta silver like a freshly cast bullet? Lar a SC definitely is more accurate due to the runout you'd get in a muti-cavity mold. I do not even shooten 2 cav bullets into the same groupings when doing serious evaluation. And like I've posted the only mold blocks this 1.25" OAL will fit into is a SC at Lee. I have BTW shot 2 cav bullets together when seriously testing but after having uniformed all the dimensions engaged by the rifling. Some call that bumping the bullet. | |||
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OK. It's changed to a more 'normal' color (from AutoCAD's magenta to a gray color). New URL posted in original post and here: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-1/82347/C210HBC-TRK_A.jpg | |||
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TRK; looks real good, when are we going to get the order in? could aladin post who's on the list? I sent him my email address but I would like to be sure I'm on the list. Ed B elbStJoeMO | |||
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Ed - Thanks, Aladin & I have to work out the last details of the design. I think he'll set a cut-off date. We have to decide on exactly which dimensions and features become THE critical dimensions that become the pass/fail criteria for accepting the mould. It's really too bad that the 6 cavity mould blocks of Lee are so short. Then come the negotiations with Lee. So there's a bit more time involved. One step at a time. Thanks, | |||
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Ed your on the listing. What I'm doing is making a group file in my address book and will send a group notice fairly soon. We're a long ways from drawing a cutoff line. Couple minor hurdles to clear as Tim suggested. We're something on the order of 48 people ordering molds and maybe 55+ total ordered... this only the sketched design. The 'F' version as I'm gonna call it, the 'fatso' is an option we'll run by Lee. If that oversized driver dia can be added sans added cost I'll ask for input on the what exact driver dia's will work out. | |||
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If you are up over 50 molds you have already earned two (2) set-up credits (one for each 25 molds you go past). For Doug to change the front driver band and the remaining main driver bands means he punches in a simple off-set for each of the affected diameters in his PLC G-code program. He does this all the time anyway to take out tooling wear -- this would likely not be a big thing to him (if you talked directly to Doug, not to Pat). If you get 75 people interested, then you could have a "slim" version with a more tapered first band for the .308 Winchester/K-31 people, a "normal" for the tapered throated 30-06 type guns and a "fatty" for the .303/Argentine/Russian boys. You could actually design the front driver taper-forms more exactly for the three intended uses this way as well. People will immediately multiple order on you, too. I would become a "skinny" and a "fatty" orderer, doubling my mold count. (you would instantly go up past 75 molds, in other words) This would be very possible to do. Doug won't really care about exactly having 25 of each type as he will be sliding his tooling wear/chatter goofs from one group over to the next group (cleaning them up to the next larger size). He will see this size range thing as a scrap saving "advantage" to him. It will also make your life easier, as when you start measuring the dropped bullets you could move (cherry pick) the mold inside the three ranges of size. Have you considered getting some lubriciser nose punches made up yet? Oldfeller | |||
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Yes Oldfeller Tim has drawn a nose punch schematic. I do think it's a good idea to get them too. Lotta nose there and keeping everything straight is the key. Even the guys who push thru to add checks might consider one. Some point in time a luber is usually purchased. I'll going to give Doug a call [2nd call to him] next week. Probably send the order sometime in early January. I think if we got the word out this order could easily exceed 100 units. Thanks for the heads up on the credits. Good to know. The first driver profile definitely a issue to pursue. If no added cost or squauking from Lee-- I'll go for it. I have to say the advice/posting of former Lee experiences from Oldfeller, Jump, Grumble, Buckshot... et all is a MAJOR plus in this undertaking. Add the very efficent services of one Trk and this is a breeze. I do APPRECIATE everyone's input about any point considering this project. Not really mine but more OURS.  | |||
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Gnawing question time here... Of the 3 versions, which of them would be proper for an '03 Springfield (yet to be purchased)? It'll probably be an A3 model, if it matters. I know it's not recommended, but some of these cast boolits might find their way into my M1, also, so which would that take? LostCajun | |||
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Quote: As of today LostCajun there's only one version. If the others materialize we'll know in a few weeks. The throat WIDTH of my 03 will accomodate the 309 first driver. | |||
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LostCajun, pard; There's nothing wrong with running cast bullets in your Garand or M1 Carbine. There are plenty of people out there who know very little about cast bullets and how to successfully load them for the many and varied uses to which they can be put....but these same folks are more than happy to expound about how "BAD" cast bullets are for your guns, and how they'll "wear out yer riflings" etc etc.....all BS. I've used cast loads in practically all the major autoloading military rifle types of the last century with enough success to make me very happy (not including the .223s...I haven't started casting 'em that small yet). My current Garand has a new military (SA) barrel installed, and presently has had about six hundred cast-bullet rounds fired WITHOUT CLEANING, and functioning is still 100%. No leading in that shiny bore, and no visible buildup in the gas system, either. M1 carbines I've used also work great with cast loads. The Garand is properly restricted to under-180-grain JACKETED bullets. No such restriction exists with cast loads, because by working up gradually we can load over-200-grain cast bullets to pressure levels just nicely sufficient to work the action reliably, and such pressures will certainly not endanger the operating rod or any other part of the rifle. Don't let the nay-sayers and old wives' tales deter you. I'm really looking forward to trying the HBC 210 in my Garand, for damned sure! Regards from BruceB (aka Bren Mk1) | |||
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Aladin: If/when you get around to considering variations on the theme, I would be interested in the same design in .315, also the tapered first band that has been discussed. Not trying to tinker with your design, just file this away for future reference.  Resp'y, Bob S. | ||
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Aladin, You got me. I was putting the cart before the horse there a bit, wasn't I? Thanks for bringing me back to reality. Bren, That's good to hear. I've read all the dire warnings of "Lead will fill up your gas cylinder with shavings within 2 clips" or some such, but was willing to risk a little brush time to see for myself. But it's nice to know somebody else has already gone down that path with good results. I wasn't actually worried about the rifling; if it'll stand up to steel jackets, it should last for a while with lead and a little copper on the back. The big thing I was worried about was the op rod, but figured judicious loading or adjustable gas plugs could avoid damage. Again, nice to have some confirmation. I'd ask about performance with heavy cast in the M1, but I don't want to detour the thread too badly. Thanks for y'all's help. LC | |||
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I do appreciate everyone's input on variations of this design. I have written some tight specs for Lee and this is my first priority-- getting a good run of molds. As I posted previously, I am going to cast a slug with each one and sort according to interest and gun fits. I tapered front driver was on the table here for a long time but was not applied for a couple reasons. First there's bound to be some variation in the molds as cut. Then a taper further complicates specs for the cutter. And if said bullet has strong forward contact with the leade, throating wall or rifling origin-- however you want to state it, alignment is accomplished. Tapering is really a mute pt in our factory guns. Input requested here-- I've seen so many 30 cals with BIG throats for width. Methinks the 3090 front driver will fit in the majority for dia and fill a lotta bores that go way past 3080 and closer to 3090. Your comments please. How many of you have impact slugs or similar of your rifle throats? | |||
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I thought I read somewhere that the blocks could be oversized for an additional cost? I can see how the single cavity would be best for uniformity. I wasn't complaining about the purple boolit, just trying to be smart. If there is going to be multiple sizes, then count me in for one of each. Just let me know when, where, how much. | |||
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Ok Lar your down for one of each size. My understanding from Lee is there's only one block this length fits in and it's a long SC. I have read the added length note on their site too and will ask more specifics on just what that covers. | |||
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As of this morning the 25th we're at 82 molds ordered.. Happy Holidays to All, Jay aka Aladin | |||
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Aladin, Sent my order form & $ for 1 mold / shipping & insurance today ($21.15) Thank you for your making this a reality! w30wcf | |||
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