I would like to start casting bullets for a .30-30 model trapper though I don't know much about it. I have a bag of wheel wieghts with I was going to use to make bullets for a .45-120 I no longer have, and this lead was supposedly the right hardness for the job.

Would it be ok for .30-30 bullets and would I have to gas check them? If so what do I need to apply them?

Thanks for any help.

Wheelweight is my favorite bullet alloy.
I prefer it heat treated but air-cooled wheelweight is adequate for low velocity plinking loads.

You could probably get by with a plain base bullet at very low velocities but it is generally easier to get good results with a gas check bullet.

If you go with a plain base you could shoot them as-cast without sizing. You may get away with loading gas check bullets without sizing but you may find that the neck doesn't grip the bullets evenly due to the bulging check and for that matter, the rounds may not chamber. It's generally better to size gas check bullets.

The cheapest way to size is with a Lee push-thru sizing die, if you can get Lee dies over there. Ditto with the Lee tumble lube. It's not the ultimate but it'll do for plinking loads.

I forgot to mention that I'd like something in the 150 to 170gn range, for hunting deer and pigs, mostly closeish range.

It seems that on top of the mold I'll need a sizing die and a tumble lube(?) what is a tumble lube? And which contraption applies the gas check. Just to proove my ignorance I'll ask; A gas check is a little metallic disc that is applied to the bottom of the bullet to protect it from the burning powder charge? Yes?

Is this going to be more trouble than it's worth?

Good place to talk about the real boolit is:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/

If you buy a Lee push-thru die, it comes with a bottle of tumble lube. A tumble lube is a liquid lube. You apply it wet and eventually it dries.

You install the gas checks by hand but they need to be crimped on. That happens in the sizing die. If you want to use gas checks, the mold has to be cut for gas checks. Some molds are plain base and some are gas check designs.

Whether it is worth the trouble depends on your attitude. Most die hard cast bullet shooters enjoy making the bullets as much as shooting them.

If you will use a gas check design - some form of sizing die will be needed to crimp the GC onto the bullet.

However - most commercial bullet moulds today really cast bullets that are smaller in diameter than would be ideal. If your gun will chamber a round with an unsized bullet - then don't size it down. (i.e. get a size die that is as large or larger than the "as cast" diameter. Something on the order of .312" or possibly .311" will likely work). Leaving the bullet larger to fill the throat will help center the bullet on axis with the bore. Don't worry about the slug being too big for the bore - the bore will size it down no problem By starting with the larger diameter - you'll also help create a better gas seal so won't be prone to leading.

For hunting - I'd use air cooled wheel weights which aren't too brittle & will give some expansion.

Lyman 311041 & RCBS 180-FN are a couple of good designs to consider from production mould makers. I find the LEE moulds work OK but they are almost all - too small in their diameters for best accuracy in my experience.

my $0.02 worth.

Best regards & good luck!

Sky C.

quote:

Originally posted by EXPRESS:
I would like to start casting bullets for a .30-30 model trapper though I don't know much about it. I have a bag of wheel wieghts with I was going to use to make bullets for a .45-120 I no longer have, and this lead was supposedly the right hardness for the job.

Would it be ok for .30-30 bullets and would I have to gas check them? If so what do I need to apply them?

Thanks for any help.

Well, the easy part is wheel weights are great for cast bullets in the 30-30. As to which bullet to choose, that's something else. For deer sized game, probably Lyman's #311291 or #311041 (may also be found as #31141 on used molds) would suffice. For heavier game than deer der though, I think I would use the RCBS #30-180-FN, nominally a 180 gr. bullet that, at least in my mold, cast a 190 gr. bullet. That's not as bad as it may sound as you can push it to about 1950 FPS from a 20" barrel, and you shouldn't lose all that much from a Trapper barrel. When Winchester came out with the 30-30 back in 1895, they used a 165 gr. bullet. Savage brought out the .303 Savage, a 30-30 class cartridge that used a 190 to 195 gr. bullet at 1950 FPS from a 26" barrel. Some old timers felt the .303 Savage was a better killer on heavier game than the 30-30 due to the heavier bullet.
That RCBS bullet duplicates that old Savage load almost to perfection with 28.0 gr. of W-748 in my 30-30 rifles and it kills deer quite well. I size my bullets to .310" for use in either Winchester or Marlin rifles that have the Micro-Groove barrels. Some Marlins might need a bullet sized to .311"
All three bullets mentioned take a gas check which must be crimped in place.
FWIW. Years ago, I conducted a little bullet test. I soaked a thick batch of newspapers that were tied together very loosely in six inch bundles. I had enough of those bundles to make a batch 18" thick. I fired tworounds of federal brand 170 gr. bullets and two Lyman #311291 bullets into the wet paper. Penetration was just about the same, hardly an inch difference between the two bullet styles. Retained weight was within five grains of each other and each had mushrooms just about the same. I haven't used a jacketed bullet for deer in my 30-30s since, and 17 dead deer will attest to the fact that they work, if they could talk. Fourteen of the deer were taken with #311291 and the rest with the RCBS bullet. All were shot with air cooled wheel weight metal. I do try to stay away from the bigger and heavier bones though. Does make a mess out of the meat.
Paul B.

I'm thinking the 180 gr RCBS fn is one of the better molds in 30 cal, but I haven't had a chance to try them out of a 30-30, I made the mistake of captitulating a few days over a saddle worn but otherwise clean moderately priced mdl 94, and needless to say it was gone by the time I got back to the gunstore. Lee also makes a pretty good looking 170 gr.

I have the RCBS-30-180FNgc mold and works well with my Marlin 336 30/30 but it's kinda hard to keep the gc in the case neck and crimping just short of the groove. I been using slower powders like H414 that fill the case or 30.0grn W748 or 4064 that don't leave much room. My bullets are ww/lino mixed with pure lead that weigh 194grns. If I've got a good bit of powder in the case I'll seat my bullet down to OAL of 2.550" or whatever and catch the crimp groove. Seems pretty accurate out of my micro groove barrel. I tried a whole list of powders with this bullet and all have done ok but I was trying to keep the gc in the neck and seating at OAL of 2.575" or so and sizing at .310" if I can get the bullet to drop from the mold big enough.

The Ly 311041 or RCBS-30-150FNgc are easy to load 30/30 rounds with two that I work with also.


Bill

quote:

Originally posted by BlueMoon:
I have the RCBS-30-180FNgc mold and works well with my Marlin 336 30/30 but it's kinda hard to keep the gc in the case neck and crimping just short of the groove. I been using slower powders like H414 that fill the case or 30.0grn W748 or 4064 that don't leave much room. My bullets are ww/lino mixed with pure lead that weigh 194grns. If I've got a good bit of powder in the case I'll seat my bullet down to OAL of 2.550" or whatever and catch the crimp groove. Seems pretty accurate out of my micro groove barrel. I tried a whole list of powders with this bullet and all have done ok but I was trying to keep the gc in the neck and seating at OAL of 2.575" or so and sizing at .310" if I can get the bullet to drop from the mold big enough.

The Ly 311041 or RCBS-30-150FNgc are easy to load 30/30 rounds with two that I work with also.


Bill

I go with Blue Moon on the Lyman 311041. It's been a good one in both a Win. 94 & a Marlin 336 with micro-groove. I size to .311 in the Marlin & .31" in the Win 94 & seat them out to just engrave the nose. Use H-335 @ 30 gr. & that is a maximum load but shoots like nobody's business. Use the Lee Liquid Alox.

Blue Moon. I seat the RCBS #30-180-FN so that it just kisses the rifling. I haven't had any feeding problems doing that in either my Marlin or Winchester rifles.
Paul B.

The .30-30 is a little more forgiving of slightly undersized boolits than any of those .30's with larger case capacities. Why this is I haven't a clue, but it is. Generally speaking, the .30-30 is about the most cast-friendly rifle cartridge you can find, and isn't overly picky about alloy as long as you aren't trying to push them out at the velocities you'd go for with jacketed. .309's work fairly well in the dozen handguns and rifles in that caliber I cast and load for, but still better accuracy is obtained at .310 or .311. (With a .308Win or an -06, you need them at least up around .311 or .312 to group decently.)
Wheel weights (WW's) are great, but make sure there isn't any zinc in them, or the molds won't fill out properly. There's a good thread on http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com titled "Zinc, do you think?" with all kinds of photos and other good info on how to recognize the bad ones and smelting techniques (low temperature) to insure they don't melt in. (There is also a lot of info on powders and loads there too that will help you a lot.) Linotype and similar hard alloys work well, too, but do not expand as readily at optimal velocities on game as softer WW alloys.
Lee sizers are easy to use and inexpensive, and Liquid Alox (tumble lube) is simple to use and effective. Are there better lubes? depends on what your rifle likes, mine are happy with it and so am I. Lee makes sizing kits in .308, .309, .311, amd .314, and will do custom sizes, but it's easier, faster, and cheaper to have one of the casters on the CB forum make them for you in odd sizes. Look up "Buckshot".
There are tons of mold options available, the problem as has been mentioned is finding one that will cast them with large enough diameters. Many resort to molds for the .303/7.7Jap and size them down to fit for best results. Gas checks make life easier as many accuracy problems come from uneven bases that cause the boolits to tumble as they leave the barrel due to unevenly escaping gasses. The big advantage of the Lee sizers is that they will seat them easily.