Are "we" everywhere ?????

I was crusing the reloading world today, just killing some time. I was struck by how often "we" are represented all over the place. Our little group is everywhere nowadays, seems like.

Also, "we" are becoming moderators/leaders at an increasing clip it seems (congrats to Tim K).

<g> "chuckle" <g>

Being involved also includes getting into the doghouse occasionally (yep, that's us). Three of our oldest and most respected members and one (1) of our resident list moderator types got their fingers mildly slapped for actually questioning (really just discussing) a point with an industry icon. Had the head list dog bark gently at them, they did.

That's not nice, making icons back up on their sacred turf like that. Gently and politely done, but well done all the same. I'm proud of you guys.

Oldfeller

Oldfeller, My wife tells me I'm cryptic, bwsk (but what does she know?)? I must have missed this, but can you be a bit more specific without revealing identities? Btw, the comment about my wife is just a bit of spousal teasing. ...Maven

Mavin -
The experiences of some of us remain as vivid learning experiences. I am still amazed that Ken what's-his-name (the one with the PhD in religion) unloaded on me (and a fist full of others) because the alternative methods that were being discussed didn't measure up to his own standards. Had to do with annealing brass (I'll drop it there).

OF -
You're right. A lot of familiar names (from Shooters.com) on the several CB boards I've haunted. It's good to see it happen. I co-moderate a Blackpowder Mortar and Cannon forum on Graybeardoutdoors.com . Much fun. They also have a cast boolet forum and a swaging forum (currently started a thread on balistic coefficant designing principles).

This however seems to remain the best forum for cast boolets. It is interesting to note that generally the cast boolet forums remain to be the most congenial of the selection.

Tim, if that's Ken Howell you're talking about, don't sweat it, he's a royal jackass. Trying to carry on a conversation with him is like trying to pet a snake. HIS opinion is the ONLY opinion, and he always has a bunch of sycophants around to shout down anyone with an honest question or difference of opinion. He's a jerk and not worth your time; let his minions fawn over him, it makes them feel important.

yea, what Grumble said.... sundog

It is a great pleasure to see that so many of you whom I like and respect have also run afoul of Doctor Doctor Ken Howell. He has TWO doctorates, he is quick to point out. My great offense was in questioning Rick Jamison's article in which he said "no serious shooter can be without a borescope." I said that Jamison had been getting freebies from the makers for so long he was divorced from reality. I did this bit of lese majeste on Howell's private board. Howell devoted about three single spaced pages to me over a couple of days. Among other things he implied that I was a thief and that God loved Ken Howell. (I guess the good Doc had a private line to Heaven and had found out that I was on the Lord's bad guy list.) It was good to see that when one gunwriter lies, another will swear to it. I stopped going to that site. Months later I got my revenge. Howell had my E-mail address and didn't make the connection and forwarded me some irrelevant piece of dross. I replied to him my real name, the handle that I had used on his site, and told him that I had so much respect for him as a highly educated and moral gentleman that I would make the supreme sacrifice and ask that he delete me from his address book. I further added that someone of his magnificence could not afford to associate in any way with a thief and reprobate such as I. I would call Howell a sphincter, but that would be damning with faint praise. He is a COMPLETE sphincter. Regards to all of Howell's enemies, curmudgeon

Nope, I totally missed that little debacle with Dr. Kenny Sphincter. Just as well, I don't care for the harsh nasty stuff, it bends your karma to get into it that harshly and deeply.

I was referring to youse guys (same crew plus Felix and Aladin) gently backing Veral up a quarter step on HBC nose forms on Greybeard's Veral forum. It was wonderfully polite and truely nicely (and I mean nice nicely) done.

Our Shooters "good manners" at their best form.

Ol' Greybeard was somewhat at a loss when he came running to the rescue (questioning Veral, you can't do that -- he's Veral Smith !!)

Mavin, me being so vague is me being nice too -- you have to volunteer something to get offended about and you have to provide the all the details about what offended you.

Me, for example, I can't get along with Parashooter on Swiss Rifles worth squat so I only occasionally read but will not likely post there again. The only reason I even look at it is the eternal hope somebody is going to come up with a better (less expensive) set of scope mounts for the K-31 rifle.

One point I agree with totally is that some lists seem to have a group of willing syncophants ready to pile on an outsider if they speak up at all. This is bad news -- such "outsider basher" lists die from constipation before very long.

Now, we DON'T do bashing all that much unless somebody is being just plain offensive. I have been guilty of teasingly "net-nannying" some all caps cursing teenager not too long ago, but then I got teasingly net-nanny'd right back by another list member which reminded me not to do that sort of stuff.

This is a fun group, with lots of good stuff to share in lots of other places. One of them is our good manners, which we need to export as much as we can.

Oldfeller

[ 12-08-2003, 10:41: Message edited by: Oldfeller ]

A very old definition of a gentleman is "one who never offends another unintentionally".

I value good manners, but on very rare occasions, a dumbass needs to be told he is a dumbass. Fortunately, we very rarely get those here.

Truth be told IT'S an awful sick puppy... where the grey matter grows. Way down inside where the spirit should live it's long dead over there. Sad and frustrating at the same time, to see such an individual get that kinda airtime. Who pays the bills over there? Methinks the switch could easily be pulled if the checkbook was told how negatively IT'S viewed by the most.
**************************************************

I do gently nudge some of Veral's claims, making sure it's just an issue about the point at hand. I stuck up for him while he was 'visiting' and now feel no need to allow him a free license to make claims that might just tug on the truth some. Fair's fair afterall. Veral is a sharp man... I enjoy that and am not gonna go to much length to disprove some of his claims, just mention the points were another point of view is obvious to experienced cast people. Veral doesn't walk on water afterall and I've never been one to place anyone up on a pedestal.

[ 12-08-2003, 17:57: Message edited by: aladin ]

Everybody has value somewhere, sometime. The Lord says so by definition. It is up to us to see through devilish bullshit, and sometimes that is damn difficult because of the sticks in our eyes. For example, Veral did formalize a particular boolit design, and Ken did a very good job in comparing cartridges. ... felix

I suspect on Greybeards that the moderator is somewhat at a loss for just exactly where the forum should be going. I believe that knowledgable people should continue putting in thier discussion regardless of his comments. If he locks a thread, start another.

The people here aren't newbies posting the "what kind of pot do I need to get started" questions. I realize that Veral is trying to run his business without getting tied up too much with the page. Fine. He doesn't need to respond to every comment.
Nor, do I expect him to.

But I do agree for general discussion, it should be done on a regular cast bullet forum, and if a concensus or impasse is reached, take the conclusion there to ask his opinion. Veral is experienced in design and practical use. And I feel from the writing style in his book, that he is open to new ideas, and would be personally interested in anything that may benefit the craft.

So, be yourself, where ever you are. The worst that can happen is getting kicked off the board all together. And I suspect if one of our oldtimers were removed from a board for a trivial reason, we would probably all leave with him, guarding his back, as it were.

Oldfeller, et al: I too have had disagreements with Parashooter on the Swiss Rifles > Straight-Pull board as recently as 12/6 & 12/7/03. To say he's closed-minded would be an understatement. And I do agree with whomever it was that said that the aforemntioned forum suffers a bit from "the not invented here" syndrome. ...Maven

No, I know you guys better than that. NOT that this would ever happen, but if they booted Felix or somebody else off Greybeard's for asking Veral a civil question in a polite manner -- then we'd all have to take a turn asking the exact same polite civil question (and getting booted off in our turn for having asked it).

No point in just quietly leaving en-mass without at least getting your point across multiple multiple times. Ol' Mahatma Ghandi would approve of this gentle "enlightened approach" to civil disobedience, especially after having had to deal with us 10 or so times in a row.

Flip-side point being we can't be getting into that sort of group sepukku situation casually or dumb-style (-- like by giving Greybeard an easy excuse by answering Veral's questions for him before Veral can get around to it -- hmmmmm? )

Almost needs to be a very non-casual very premeditated group suicide if it has to come to that, and it has to be for something of real significance to be worth it.

Ol'Mahatmafeller

IMO the eternal flame is gonna be lick'n IT'S sorry ol' ass for a long time. I find no merit in anyone NOT respecting the space of someone else and what they've got to say and then taking such offense when IT'S space/opinion is questioned.

What's good for one is good for all...

The Musketeers always said it "All for one, and one for all". Same general thought, I suspect.

We are much like any other family, we pick on each other from time to time (when we deserve it) but nobody else is allowed to.

Oldfeller

Well put Felix - to be able to compliment some of the others that appear to have caused pain.

It is indeed an honor to participate with this bunch - although the absence of Carpetman's posts are sadly noted.

It is a mark of emotional maturity for these issues to be able to be discussed such civil terms as well - thanks Oldfeller, one and all!

[ 12-09-2003, 07:03: Message edited by: trk ]

Carpetman and Penny are still around, just look on the airgun boards.

Oldfeller