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Originally posted by idabull:
Starmetal(aka MaxPayne,joe, et al,ad naus.) This analysis free gratis ????,from your laughing guy at Sierra ballistics !! Idabull

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Originally posted by idabull:
Try this Starmetal--what the short form description of something that invents laughing guys to help prevail in an internet discussion (four letters will do it) Idabull

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Oh, notice too on the lower hole/holes that the upper edge is straight, that further proves the side of the bullet cut that part.

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Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Starmetal

Here’s my take on it since you’ve thrown the gauntlet!

Obviously a long heavy bullet for what was a light barrel. The barrel was whipping around something fierce as that bullet was screeching down the barrel at obviously a too high a rate of acceleration. The “nodes” obviously had little time to line up with the guy who was shooting only 2 shots that day at when it was not over 80 degrees (over 80 degrees taking all day to shoot along with a 3 shot group and this would not have happened according to one legend in his own mind!). This is not an LBT bullet (my guess because of the stated age of the bullets) but was “custom fit” to the bore via sandpaper and cast of an unknown and dubious alloy not able to take the high RPM generated inside the barrel. Ergo on exit the nose began torqueing into the direction of spin which no doubt bent the bullets in a 360 degree direction. By the time the base of the bullet caught up with the nose the centripedal force was causing the old style Lyman GC to invert as they passed through the light spectrum of the chronies skyskreens. Since this rifle has a slower twist than your Grendle and a faster twist than a typical ’06 then all bets are off on the RPM threshold. But to continue; the bullet, now bent 360 degrees and torqueing to the point it is straight again is now being srtipped of it’s GC which is inverting because leftiye was right and the barrel was lined up .000000001” to the left of the aiming point so the math tells us something ain’t right. But since you brought it up it’s up to you to figure out what because you made the theory so you’ve got to prove it. Not sure what all that means to the bullet now super heated by friction in the barrel all of which has slid to the base of the bullet so the GC is now soldered to the base. The bullet is just about torque twisted to the point where the GC is entering the target first cutting the clean hole while the rest of the bullet now begins to untorque making the other keyholing appearance of an aberration in the target. Lucky for the shooter he put the target at 75 yards bcause at 100 yards the bullet would have super heated from air friction and the GC would have become unsoldered and drop off probably reversing course to smash the chronie borrowed from Blammer! The bullet now have untorqued, untwisted and gone to sleep would have made the perfect sub moa Starmetal group and no one would have known of this phenomenon!

Larry Gibson

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Originally posted by James Kain:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Starmetal

Here’s my take on it since you’ve thrown the gauntlet!

Obviously a long heavy bullet for what was a light barrel. The barrel was whipping around something fierce as that bullet was screeching down the barrel at obviously a too high a rate of acceleration. The “nodes” obviously had little time to line up with the guy who was shooting only 2 shots that day at when it was not over 80 degrees (over 80 degrees taking all day to shoot along with a 3 shot group and this would not have happened according to one legend in his own mind!). This is not an LBT bullet (my guess because of the stated age of the bullets) but was “custom fit” to the bore via sandpaper and cast of an unknown and dubious alloy not able to take the high RPM generated inside the barrel. Ergo on exit the nose began torqueing into the direction of spin which no doubt bent the bullets in a 360 degree direction. By the time the base of the bullet caught up with the nose the centripedal force was causing the old style Lyman GC to invert as they passed through the light spectrum of the chronies skyskreens. Since this rifle has a slower twist than your Grendle and a faster twist than a typical ’06 then all bets are off on the RPM threshold. But to continue; the bullet, now bent 360 degrees and torqueing to the point it is straight again is now being srtipped of it’s GC which is inverting because leftiye was right and the barrel was lined up .000000001” to the left of the aiming point so the math tells us something ain’t right. But since you brought it up it’s up to you to figure out what because you made the theory so you’ve got to prove it. Not sure what all that means to the bullet now super heated by friction in the barrel all of which has slid to the base of the bullet so the GC is now soldered to the base. The bullet is just about torque twisted to the point where the GC is entering the target first cutting the clean hole while the rest of the bullet now begins to untorque making the other keyholing appearance of an aberration in the target. Lucky for the shooter he put the target at 75 yards bcause at 100 yards the bullet would have super heated from air friction and the GC would have become unsoldered and drop off probably reversing course to smash the chronie borrowed from Blammer! The bullet now have untorqued, untwisted and gone to sleep would have made the perfect sub moa Starmetal group and no one would have known of this phenomenon!

Larry Gibson

Damn I want some of what he's got! (just picken on ya)

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Originally posted by starmetal:
Larry I did state what I thought to be the test to see if the bullet was tipping and swheeler said it again, but for, again, it's shoot the same load at 100 yards.

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Originally posted by Larry Gibson:

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Originally posted by starmetal:
Larry I did state what I thought to be the test to see if the bullet was tipping and swheeler said it again, but for, again, it's shoot the same load at 100 yards.

Starmetal

Well apparently you all have lost your sense of humor, except for James who understood satire. Swheeler is just like 45 2.1, real good at telling others what to do or saying what others have done but very slim on actually showing us something, anything really, that he has done. Perhaps he could add some facts from his own shooting or tests to these threads and become a pertinant part of the discussion instead of the distraction he is?

You know I agree with your take on the two "doubles" as posted in that thread. Not much else it could be. I was going to post pretty much the same as you posted here when that thread first opened on CBF. But I thought I'd just wait for the others to respond. I wanted to see if and who would come up with a reasonable conclusion based on accurate observation of the target and a sound scientific knowledge of cast bullets in flight. Haven't been there yet today so I don't know if anyone besides one poster knew what they were talking about. The usual opinions and witchcraft theories is what I mostly saw.

The test at 100 yards or even into a couple thick phone books as suggested would have answered the question. I mean, figure the odds of two cast bullets shot back to back breaking in two and leaving almost identical holes. That's even greater odd's than your constant long range moa groups Sorry, couldn't resist, just had to throw that in.

You are right in your observations here Joe. I just can't figure out how you can be so wrong with other observations. Please give us your defintion of the RPM threshold. On the other thread is fine.

Larry Gibson

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Originally posted by James Kain:
When you conduct your tests, I would love to find out the results! I cast quite a bit and have yet to run in to key-holing and double-holes. The more I know means the more I have in my Bag-of-tricks.

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Originally posted by James Kain:
When you conduct your tests, I would love to find out the results! I cast quite a bit and have yet to run in to key-holing and double-holes. The more I know means the more I have in my Bag-of-tricks.

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Originally posted by Larry Gibson:

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Originally posted by James Kain:
When you conduct your tests, I would love to find out the results! I cast quite a bit and have yet to run in to key-holing and double-holes. The more I know means the more I have in my Bag-of-tricks.

James

It also is apparent from the clean cut holes that the GCs were loose on the GC shank and were probably "peeled" off and had just enough energy to cut the clean holes in the target paper. Subsequent test by the actual shooter demonstraits this as the GCs were found in front of the harder target he used. The GCs obviously peeled off the GC shanks as the bullets entered the target.

The "double hole" is really a phenomenon of the older Lyman non-crimp on GCs. I've seen it numerous times over the years. The last time was some years back when i was trying to develope a subsonic load with 211291 out of the .30 cal M1 Carbine. The bullets were not stabilized at all by the 18" twist (Joe, please don't go there!) and were keyholing badly. I was using heavy paster board E target and most of the Lyman GCs were stuck in the hole or had bounced off and were laying infront of the target. Those that went through the target paper showed exactly the same kind of hols as is pictured by this other shooter.

Larry Gibson

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Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Starmetal

Even when I agree with you you've got to argue.

Go back up and look at the two elongated bullet holes in the picture you posted here. See on each one there is a "clean" cut part of the hole and a lead smeared part of the hole. The GCs that were being peeled off cut the clean part of the elongated hole. Comprende that?

Larry Gibson

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Originally posted by starmetal:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Starmetal

Even when I agree with you you've got to argue.

Go back up and look at the two elongated bullet holes in the picture you posted here. See on each one there is a "clean" cut part of the hole and a lead smeared part of the hole. The GCs that were being peeled off cut the clean part of the elongated hole. Comprende that?

Larry Gibson

Wait a minute. You may not be agreeing with me. I don't think the gas checks came off. A tipped bullet will cut a hole like that, that looks round. Larry tell him to shoot at 100 yards same everything. Let's see the targets then. Didn't he say somewhere in the original thread on CB that he had to pull the gas checks off with pliers?

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Originally posted by Larry Gibson:

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Originally posted by starmetal:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Starmetal

Even when I agree with you you've got to argue.

Go back up and look at the two elongated bullet holes in the picture you posted here. See on each one there is a "clean" cut part of the hole and a lead smeared part of the hole. The GCs that were being peeled off cut the clean part of the elongated hole. Comprende that?

Larry Gibson

Wait a minute. You may not be agreeing with me. I don't think the gas checks came off. A tipped bullet will cut a hole like that, that looks round. Larry tell him to shoot at 100 yards same everything. Let's see the targets then. Didn't he say somewhere in the original thread on CB that he had to pull the gas checks off with pliers?

Once again you're not reading what I wrote. Three posts earlier I stated; "It also is apparent from the clean cut holes that the GCs were loose on the GC shank and were probably "peeled" off and had just enough energy to cut the clean holes in the target paper. Subsequent test by the actual shooter demonstraits this as the GCs were found in front of the harder target he used. The GCs obviously peeled off the GC shanks as the bullets entered the target."

In the next post of yours wou quoted me stating that. The test was already re run. The GCs seperated from the bullets by the target and were found in front of the target.

I shouldn't have to repeat myself if this is going to be a decent discussion. Read what is said.

Larry Gibson

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Originally posted by starmetal:

I hadn't been back to CB and read his post since he posted it the very first time. "I" thought you made that assumption, not knowing you read his final verdict (which I just read). That appears it then, but why are they coming off so easily?

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Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Now that is what I would call a RIOT gun! Good crowd control.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
aren't you the clown who got banned from the castboolits forum?

Rich
Buff Killer

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Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
aren't you the clown who got banned from the castboolits forum?

Rich
Buff Killer

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Originally posted by 45nut:

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Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
aren't you the clown who got banned from the castboolits forum?

Rich
Buff Killer

I do wish this sort of post never appeared.

Past is past, and things might not be as simple as they appear.

We are all fans of shooting cast lead, bottom line. Considering how tough things are getting, we ought to be sticking together instead of sticking each other.