Anyone using WC-680, WW-680, or AA-1680 in less than full case loads?

I've never used ball powders for reduced loads. What I'm asking is whether I can use this stuff pretty much as I use 4198 in the larger cases?

I'm using surplus WC680 with the 340 grain Gould hollowpoint in .45-70. Presently at 37 grains with a CCI 250 primer and no fiber filler. It rattles in the case, but fills probably 75-80% of the space under the bullet. Velocity's in the 1500 FPS neighborhood. Burns cleanly. The charge and velocity are both well below listed maximums for 4198, but I have no way to measure pressures and don't believe any case measuring methods work in the pressure range of the 1895 Marlin, so I'm not pushing it. I'm getting reliable performance at a level I'm happy with. It needs those magnum primers.

leftoverdj, I use wc680 11/12grs in 25-20 and 256 win mag with both cast and condom. I don't have chrono speeds, but estimate about 1350 out of the marlin 92 with 24 in barrel 25-20 and 1000 in the TC 10in 256 with the 68 gr lyman cast (71gr with gc)

Calamity jake

LOdj, I think Sundog has some now, and I will get some from him to play with. I think this powder might be somewhat basic to WC820 in that it is just as friendly, but much slower. It is not a form of WW296/H110 in my way of thinking. Being a ball powder, chances are not to be taken. 75 percent of a full load (full case full) would be the maximum chance I would take in keeping 99 percent confidence. The powder would excell in the extended length pistol cases, like the 445, which is an extension of the 44 mag. ... felix

Felix, Jake, I'm currently shooting WW-680 in .25-20 and .357 Max and the right charge is about all I can stuff in the case.

I'm also shooting a .45-70. which to my way of thinking is another long pistol case. I'll find out how much it takes to fill 3/4s of that case and scratch my head some about whether I care to fire that charge.

NotRicochet's load sound like about what I am looking for and I'll see if I am happy with how it fills the case. I'm a lot more comfortable doing this with cast than I would be with jacketed.

I've loaded WC680 in my 45-70 BFR. With regular primers, I got hangfires and squibs. I switched to Fed 215s and the problem went away.

Lar45,

I had the same problem with WC680 in my 45-70. If you dont mind me asking..what load/loads are you using with 680? I have 15+ lbs of 680 and need to find a way to burn it up.

thanks

Jason

Leftoverdj,

I originally purchased an 8-pound keg of the WC-680 to use in my 445 Super Magnum. Accurate Arms indicates that AA-1680 is �THE� powder for this caliber. And since WC-680 uses AA-1680 reloading data, I figured this would work great. WELL, it worked just O.K.! I did get good velocities from the Super 14� Contender barrel in 445SM, but accuracy was only mediocre with jacketed or cast bullets in weights ranging from 180 to 325 grains.

So, I did use it in my .223, 7-30 Waters, 30-30, 44 Magnum, and the 357 Magnum. The first 3 calibers were reduced loads using cast bullets. The later 2 were �full power house� loads. Again, accuracy was only so-so with all of them.

With this powder and particular lot number, I used IMR-4227 and XMP-5744 data. I DON�T RECOMMEND THIS PROCEDURE AS IT IS NOT PROVEN IN ANY WRITTEN DATA WHERE PRESSURE EQUIPMENT WAS USED. It did work for me and I have had no problems with pressure. Your results may be different!!!

I have �bout 5 pounds left of an 8-pound keg and I am glad that is all I have left!!! It seems to me to be a VERY SPECIALTY powder with very limited uses. Sure glad I don�t have as much as Jason22 has!!! Good-luck with your venture with WC-680�BCB

I'm one of those fellows who uses cereal fillers in my .45-70 loads. Think that will take the concern out of using WC-680 there. I'll report back on that.

So far I agree that 680 is a niche powder, but it seems to work mighty good in that niche. I'm very happy with it in the .25-20, the .357 Max and the 7.62x39. I'd expect it to work well in the Hornet, the Spitfire, the Fireball, and the .30 Carbine were I shooting any of those. Sure wish I had a .256 Mag or Max to try it in.

I have a solution to your problems with that nasty old WC680.

Box it up, pay the haz mat fee and ship it post paid to me.

Nice guy that I am I will distroy it for you in my single chamber high temperature/high pressure thermal destructor.

Sierra or Hornady lists a load for this in the Contender with 300 grain Condum bullets!

LouisB

Jason22, this is what I shot in my BFR which is a very strong revolver. Useing AA1680 for comparison in Quickload, I got really close to the same velocity, so I'm just guessing that the pressure might be similar also.

405gn bullet WC680 Fed 215 primer Win case 10.5" bbl
gns fps pressure kpsi
44 1534 30
46 1614 33.7
48 1662 37.7
50 1731 42.1
52 1751 47

The velocity was measured, the pressure is a prediction from quickload.
I would only use these loads in a strong gun.

[ 11-16-2003, 07:19: Message edited by: Lar45 ]

Lar45, just out of curiosity, would you mind running my 37 gr. 680 load with the 340 gr. lead bullet and see what QL predicts for the pressure?

It certainly seems like a mild load in the 1895 Marlin, but I'm not sure I'd recommend it for Trapdoor-class firearms.

I ran it through quickload.
37gns AA1680 340gn cast 45-70
20" bbl 1542fps 16.4kpsi
22" bbl 1578fps

is this about the same velocity you are getting? Do you have to use a mag primer to get it to light off? I had to use Fed 215s to get rid of the hangfires.

quickload sure is a handy program. It's just too bad it cost $150. And it all fits on one floppy. They don't have AA9 or Lilgun though. I think I have a pretty good estimation of WC820 from a modified powder profile. It predicts the velocity pretty good and the pressure predictions seems reasonable.????

I recently acquired a jug of H116 from Powder Valley. The onliest data they supplied is from Hodgdon, and then only for .30 Carbine and 7.62x39 Ruskie. BUT..., being the enterprising lad I am, I loaded some in 30-30 with boolits from my new Lee soupcan 6-banger. That mould turns out nice boolits, and really fast, too, -- REALLY FAST!. Near as I can tell so far is that H116 may be very near to 680. In doing my research, I think I will also be able to use it in 25-20. Looks like it likes the smaller cases. There is obvious lack of published data. Near as I can tell, 21.0 H116 and the Lee 113 (with FWFL big batch, of course) runs about 1900-2000 fps. Fun to shoot and fairly accurate at 50 yards - one half minute of charging beer can. sundog

I have an 8 pound jug of WC680. The only successful use I've come up with to date is propelling the Lee .44 310s, (seated long to 1.720), downrange over a crammed full case, (27 grains) in my DW .44 mag for 1,100 fps. Dirty but accurate, SD is in the single digits. You have to compress this stuff and crimp it good to get good results in the .44mag. BD

Thanks, Lar45! That sounds in the ballpark of what I'm shooting. Haven't shot the 37 grain load over the Chrony yet. 35 was giving me 1480 FPS from a 22" barrel. Yes, the magnum primers are necessary. With standard primers I'd get near-blooper loads that'd make a dull boom, give a subsonic muzzle velocity and leave unburned powder. No such problems with the CCI 250s.

I believe the load could safely be worked up a good bit higher, but that's not what I want. I was interested in a near-blackpowder-level load with moderate pressures and thought that'd be a powder close to 4198 as the starter of this thread suggested. Saw it cheap from the surplus dealers and thought it worthy of experimentation. Seems to be working well. Actually when this supply of WC680 runs out, I'll probably look into WC820 for it. (If that's still around.) I've used 2400 a good bit in .45-70 in the past. Just shot the last ones I had on hand loaded with that. (Under 300 gr. Hornady JHPs.)

sundog,

What type of accuracy are you getting with �The Soup Can� bullet at 100 yards? And what rifle/handgun are you shooting the little Lee 113�s from? I also get good accuracy at 50 yards, but accuracy sort of goes south at the 100 yard targets..

I used 22.0 grains of WC-680 for a muzzle velocity of 2081 fps from a Super 14� Contender in 30-30 caliber. I�ve also used H-110, IMR-4895, SR-4759, Unique, WC-844, and WC-860 (I always try those darn slow burners�har, har, har) with O.K. results at 50 yards but I can�t break the 100 yard curse with these little slugs. I�ve shot them in the Contender and a �scoped Model �94. Any thoughts? BCB

BCB wrote:
I�ve also used H-110, IMR-4895, SR-4759, Unique, WC-844,

Tell us more about the H110, Unique and WC844 loads if they were in a 14" barrel.

LouisB
Nosey folks want to know!

[ 11-20-2003, 06:23: Message edited by: TCLouis ]

TCLouis,

The following loads using the Lee C309-113F have been safe in my T/C Contender and Model �94. AIN�T RECOMMENDING THEM FOR YOUR FIREARMS. There is no published data for these loads so BE VERY CAREFUL!!! Plus different lots of the same powder may cause problems.

H-110 15.5 grains 1783 fps
IMR-4895 25.0 grains 1664 fps
SR-4759 18.0 grains 1881 fps
UNIQUE 8.0 grains 1420 fps
WC-844 30.0 grains 1797 fps

H-110 was the most accurate at 50 yards in the Contender. WC-844 was the most accurate at 100 yards, especially when fired in the Model �94. This particular 30-30 Contender barrel has only been mediocre with accuracy and any cast bullet that I have used in it. Especially at the 100 yards or greater targets. BUT, it will shoot jacketed bullets into M.O.A. most of the day long at distances out to 150 yards. Go figure� Good-luck and use extreme discretion with the data listed�BCB