I loaded some loads using 28grs AA5744 and 500gr powder coated and gas checked cast bullets.Here is a 50yd,7 shot target.

[URL= ]50yds off the bench, open sights[/URL]

You sure like that big stuff. How was the recoil? You have a good start.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:
You sure like that big stuff. How was the recoil? You have a good start.

Very light recoil.Similar to a starting 308 load.

Shootaway...you know when you bake cure your pc that the temperature involved is near the temperature that one would oven heat treat cast bullets. With that said you have a waiting period if the alloy contains antimony, arsenic, tin, and lead. We get those alloys from wheel weights. The molecules are moving after casting (and oven heat treating) and takes about two week minimum before they lock into their final setting. Also I've been told that pc has a curing time too after the oven bake. So what I am telling you may make your bullets shoot better after that waiting period. If you have questions about this just ask me. Just plain lead bullets for handguns don't have this problem.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:
Shootaway...you know when you bake cure your pc that the temperature involved is near the temperature that one would oven heat treat cast bullets. With that said you have a waiting period if the alloy contains antimony, arsenic, tin, and lead. We get those alloys from wheel weights. The molecules are moving after casting (and oven heat treating) and takes about two week minimum before they lock into their final setting. Also I've been told that pc has a curing time too after the oven bake. So what I am telling you may make your bullets shoot better after that waiting period. If you have questions about this just ask me. Just plain lead bullets for handguns don't have this problem.

I will keep that in mind, thanks.
As you know I am new to casting and powder coating.
[URL= ]458 Lott[/URL]

100yd group

[URL= ]100yds,off the bench, open sights[/URL]

You did something right on those three that are close together.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:
You did something right on those three that are close together.

I hope that is the case.I will try again and see if I can get it to group better at 100yds ,then report back.I will try a different powder too.

I see a loaded bullet with an unfilled out driving band. Not uncommon but that bullet should be culled before loading. Things like that throw the groups out. Bullet quality is the first component that controls groups. All the rest is literately behind the bullet. No amount of tweaking powder, primer, filler, lube, or crimp can cure bad bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
I see a loaded bullet with an unfilled out driving band. Not uncommon but that bullet should be culled before loading. Things like that throw the groups out. Bullet quality is the first component that controls groups. All the rest is literately behind the bullet. No amount of tweaking powder, primer, filler, lube, or crimp can cure bad bullets.

Yup you need to improve on your casting. That one would really be out of balance and cause a flyer.

In my opinion you can cast better bullet with a ladle rather then a bottom pour furnace.

[URL= ]458 Lott[/URL]

From what I can see those look okay. Of course can see the part of the bullet seated inside the case.

One way to check the quality of you casting is to weigh the bullets. If you have a big variance you're not casting well.

Like said before... inspect your as cast bullets before PC coating for complete fill out, sharp edges and flat bases. Any questionable ones should be thrown back in the pot.

I need to let the mold get a little hotter and throw away the imperfect cast bullets.

I run my pot around 720 degrees. You control the temperature of your mould by the cadence you set in casting. Example, if alloy temperature is right and the mould has been heated up, if your sprue takes a real long time to solidify you're casting too fast. If the sprue freezes in couple of seconds you're casting too slow. Usually I cast with a sprue freeze of 4 to 10 seconds. When you have that cadence down pat your bullets will improve or should I say be of a more consistent weight and size. You don't want frosted bullets, that's when either the alloy or mould are too hot or both. Another sign of the mould being too hot, with some moulds not all, is that the bullet won't release from the cavities. Like I said for a real eye opener weigh you bullets.

I grabbed a handful and weighed each one.They all weighed the same.

All the same including the tenths? Even factory jacketed don't weight the same to the tenth. You may get the caster of the year award!!

479.1
478.0
480.3
477.0
479.2
479.8
479.5
479.6
479.1
479.6
479.9
479.6
481.1
482.5
479.5
479.1
478.6
475.8

From the highest to the lowest you have a weight variance of 6.7 grains. That's not good. I'm running a variance of .1 to .3

If I keep at it my casting will most likely improve.Next time out to the range I will shoot at 100yds only those with near exact weight and dimension.I shot it again at 100yds yesterday and the group was similar or just a little better.I noticed my POI elevation increased by 2-3 inches.The only thing that changed in my reloading procedure was that I used a 458 Lott expander instead of the 458WM expander the second time I shot them.It seems the Lott expander raised the POI.The 458 WM expander was set deep.I also tried the powdered cast bullets in my 458WM.I had been shooting cast for about a year and shot about 2000 lubed cast rds through it.It had stopped shooting lubed cast bullets accurately at 50yds.Accuracy was restored with the powdered coated bullets and POI remained identical.

If you follow what I said about casting your casting should improve. Don't know lubricated cast bullets you're eyes would pop out if you saw what a bunch of us have been doing with them.

On your expanders it sounds like one may be leaving the case mouth tighter then the other. Simple, mic your expander balls.

"On your expanders it sounds like one may be leaving the case mouth tighter then the other."

and increasing POI of a 500gr bullet 3 inches at 100yds?-I doubt it.I think the 458WM expander die is opening up the 458 Lott case up beyond the neck-I've got it set too deep.The 458WM case is more canted or tapered than the Lott's.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
"On your expanders it sounds like one may be leaving the case mouth tighter then the other."

and increasing POI of a 500gr bullet 3 inches at 100yds?-I doubt it.I think the 458WM expander die is opening up the 458 Lott case up beyond the neck-I've got it set too deep.The 458WM case is more canted or tapered than the Lott's.

Now that you explained further by all means seating a bullet deeper with the same powder charge is going to raise pressure thus velocity which will cause the different impact at the target.

From now on please try to include all the data so I can better help you. You hadn't said you seated that bullet deeper. Now to insure I got this correct. Did you or did you not seat the bullet deeper? If not expanding the case deeper isn't going to change much of anything if the bullets are all seated to the same depth.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
"On your expanders it sounds like one may be leaving the case mouth tighter then the other."

and increasing POI of a 500gr bullet 3 inches at 100yds?-I doubt it.I think the 458WM expander die is opening up the 458 Lott case up beyond the neck-I've got it set too deep.The 458WM case is more canted or tapered than the Lott's.

Now that you explained further by all means seating a bullet deeper with the same powder charge is going to raise pressure thus velocity which will cause the different impact at the target.

From now on please try to include all the data so I can better help you. You hadn't said you seated that bullet deeper. Now to insure I got this correct. Did you or did you not seat the bullet deeper? If not expanding the case deeper isn't going to change much of anything if the bullets are all seated to the same depth.

No I did not seat the bullet deeper.

"If not expanding the case deeper isn't going to change much of anything if the bullets are all seated to the same depth."

This is the only thing I did different.I did not only expand it deeper,I expanded it using a 458WM expanding die.

Do this. I you have a mic, measure both expanders. What you are saying doesn't make sense and shouldn't change the impact as much as you say. The Lott is very much like the 458WM except it's longer. You can even fire the 458WM in a Lott rifle. I would assume the expanders would be the same as they use the same bullets. Now something about expanding for cast bullets. You shouldn't use the expander set for jacketed for cast bullets. For an example let's say your cast bullets are .458 after sizing. Your expander should only be about .0015 inch smaller that the bullet, that is .4565. You can go .456 too. So measure those expanders.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:
Do this. I you have a mic, measure both expanders. What you are saying doesn't make sense and shouldn't change the impact as much as you say. The Lott is very much like the 458WM except it's longer. You can even fire the 458WM in a Lott rifle. I would assume the expanders would be the same as they use the same bullets. Now something about expanding for cast bullets. You shouldn't use the expander set for jacketed for cast bullets. For an example let's say your cast bullets are .458 after sizing. Your expander should only be about .0015 inch smaller that the bullet, that is .4565. You can go .456 too. So measure those expanders.

The Lott is not only longer than the 458WM it tapers less.They are both not straight.Id did measure my expanders and they are both the same at .4555.I know that a different case shape can cause a change in POI.My coated bullets mic at .465 unsized and .460 sized.Have you noticed a difference in POI between sized and unsized bullets?

[URL= ]100yds[/URL]
[URL= ]50yds[/URL]

458wm in the centre plus one in group top right.
458 Lott group above and to the right of the black circle.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:
Do this. I you have a mic, measure both expanders. What you are saying doesn't make sense and shouldn't change the impact as much as you say. The Lott is very much like the 458WM except it's longer. You can even fire the 458WM in a Lott rifle. I would assume the expanders would be the same as they use the same bullets. Now something about expanding for cast bullets. You shouldn't use the expander set for jacketed for cast bullets. For an example let's say your cast bullets are .458 after sizing. Your expander should only be about .0015 inch smaller that the bullet, that is .4565. You can go .456 too. So measure those expanders.

The Lott is not only longer than the 458WM it tapers less.They are both not straight.Id did measure my expanders and they are both the same at .4555.I know that a different case shape can cause a change in POI.My coated bullets mic at .465 unsized and .460 sized.Have you noticed a difference in POI between sized and unsized bullets?

Okay both those expanders are too tight for cast. PC can stand a little tighter then lubricated cast.

The only way case shape can change things is if one shape doesn't align the centerline of the cartridge with the centerline of the bore. That's one of the secrets...that and getting the bullet started into the bore straight.

No I've never had poi change with different bullet diameters, but have seen accuracy change. Generally I'll shoot an unsized bullet if it fits the chamber. Yup you're loading too tight neck tension for cast. You know too that a case can size down a cast bullet? Depends how hard your alloy is. I expand most all my cartridges using the RCBS type expander/flare tools. I cut new expanders on my lathe rather then buy them. Don't let anyone fool you telling you the Lyman M type is the best, it's not.

Congrats, it looks like you are on to something.


Are you going to vary powder type and amount to see if there is one surprisingly very good load?

quote:

Originally posted by TCLouis:
Congrats, it looks like you ar on to something.

Are you going to vary powder type and amount to see if there is on surprisingly very good load?

Thanks.Yes I am.

I will keep a look out for a larger expander.I coated some bullets today with another brand of powder paint and what a world of a difference-much better quality.Thanks again vzerone for bringing all these details to my attention.

[URL= ]1[/URL]

What new brand did you try? Looks pretty good.

PC bullets can stand a tighter neck tension then the lubricated cast bullet.

Emerald Coatings.

You know there is a Castboolits member that sells powder coat and many are using it. I think (not sure) his name is Smoke something. They swear by it and the price is very right from what I hear. You may inquire over there. Like I mentioned before I'm using Eastwood.

Here's a link to Smoke's Vendor Corner on Castboolit. Read it.

http://castboolits.gunloads.co...-Smoke-4320-s-Corner

I tried the powder coated bullets in my 308 yesterday.The lubed,uncoated shot much more accurate.Also,it seems that my 458 wm is finished.It shot key holes with the powder coated bullets too.Next time out with the 458 wm I will try unsized.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I tried the powder coated bullets in my 308 yesterday.The lubed,uncoated shot much more accurate.Also,it seems that my 458 wm is finished.It shot key holes with the powder coated bullets too.Next time out with the 458 wm I will try unsized.

Was this with the new powder or the old one? If it was the new one go back to the old one.

You do know that when you powder coat you have to let your bullets age again? Also the powder coat does age some also, even though you cured it with baking.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I tried the powder coated bullets in my 308 yesterday.The lubed,uncoated shot much more accurate.Also,it seems that my 458 wm is finished.It shot key holes with the powder coated bullets too.Next time out with the 458 wm I will try unsized.

Was this with the new powder or the old one? If it was the new one go back to the old one.

You do know that when you powder coat you have to let your bullets age again? Also the powder coat does age some also, even though you cured it with baking.

The 458WM was keyholing with the new powder.I am going to try going back to the old one and not sizing-that is how I shot them last time.Next time out I will give them at least a week to age.

You get on those two forums I provided you with as there is much to know about shooting pc. For example on rifles a lot depends on the alloy you use. With handguns not so critical. Have you gone to those sites and read?

slowly but surely

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
slowly but surely

Good methodology.