Hi All, Was re-testing a load in my 30-06 that had worked very well for me in the past. Lyman 311291 and 30g of IMR 3031. In the past this load had produced clover leafs at 70yds but this time I forgot to elevate the barrel and distinctly heard the firing pin drop a moment before ignition. A second attempt to repeat the "hang fire" produced the same results. This is a published load from Lyman�s 46th reloading manual but I'm worried that if I use it anymore I might get an SEE. I never had trouble with this load before but had never tried it in cooler (mid 40's) temps before. Any thoughts? BTW when I elevated the barrel on the remaining loads I still got the excellent accuracy I had experienced before. KevD

What sort of primers? Any chance of contamination by oil or moisture (even while handling them during loading), or not getting them fully seated, else crushing them? Do you have a hand priming device, or use that awful primer seating post on the press? Could the firing pin blow have softened, i.e. from dried up oil stiffening in the cold or some such?

Well, since you mention that you initially forgot to elevate the barrel before firing, you imply that it is a requirement because the load density is less than it should be perhaps around 50%. Something like 48 gr. is the normal load in the .30-06 so you are loading approximately 18 gr. or 38% less than "normal". You also mention that if the barrel is elevated before every shot, all is as it should be. I think you've answered your own question.

That you are loading cast bullets implies some experience. You also don't mention the primers failing to go off. For those reasons I don't think you're contaminating primers.

For me, any load in which I must present in a certain order such as elevating the barrel immediately before firing is unsatisfactory. For this reason I try to use a powder that will not only meet my performance criteria but also come as close as possible to 100% loading density. If nothing else, this ensures repeatability with regards to the charge and primer relationship.

KevD, sounds like a job for Dacron Tuft. I know one thing, click-bangs are very disconcerting. One load that is repeatable click-bang is HS7 (a very good powder otherwise) in '06 and a 180ish cast boolit. Don't premember the charge but it would be to push the bollit 14-1500 fps. Just too big a case for that powder. Aside from that I have used that same 3031 load in '06 and it shoots well. So does 21-24 4198 (I think it is one of Buckshot's favorties and rightly so). I think I'd try a different lot of powder and differnet primers - one at a time. sundog

I believe Sundog has it right (as he usually does).

Hangfires are not all that uncommon, although disconcerting, as mentioned. I've encountered a number of them in the very recent past as I've been working a WHOLE bunch of wildly different loads in various cartridges.

The fact that this load worked for you when the muzzle was elevated, and gives hangfires when the muzzle is NOT elevated, indicates to me that the load is just on the edge of reliability. In most of my loads which occupy much less than say, 75% of available case volume, I do use a LOOSE tuft of dacron, NOT tamped tightly or anything approaching that state. The tuft is barely larger than an eyeball estimate of how much room exists above the charge, is just tucked down into the case with the top of the tuft at the case mouth, and the final light compression is provided by the bullet's base when being seated.

The other alternative of course is to increase the charge somewhat. I suspect that just a couple of grains will do the trick.

From a series of experiments I did a couple of years ago (available as "primer contamination" on the 'Shooters.com Archives, Reloading: Handgun Board', I will categorically state that handling primers with normal-condition hands (i.e.: NOT literally dripping with oils or solvents) will NOT affect your primers in the slightest degree.

I think I'd do both procedures as a test: bump the charge a grain or two, AND add a small bit of dacron to the current, hangfiring load. I betcha both will work.

Regards from BruceB (aka Bren Mk1)

Well if some of you remembered I posted some pics here of 7.65 Argentine fired casings of which some were really black and the others were not. Kev probably had the same situation I had with those. That particular loading didn't have my dacron or kapok tuff in it and I was merely elevating the barrel for each shot and I had forgot to lift one or two times resulting in the blacked cases and a hang fire.

Kev..on the hangfires were the extracted cases black prett far down the neck, shoulder, etc?

I'll go along with Bruce on either load little more powder or go ahead and use that tuff of dacron or kapok. I think either of those two will solve your problem. I believe Bruce will agree with me that loads with the dacron filler shoot more consistant so you might investigate that type of loading.

Joe

Amen to that, Joe.

I remember those photos well, and the cases were classic indicators of low pressure. I had some looking just like that in the early CAUTIOUS loads in my new M77 7.62x39. Not lately, though! (I'm still cautious, all right....just not THAT cautious.)

Regards from BruceB (aka Bren Mk1)

I use a Lee hand prime tool and CCI SR primers. All primer pockets were cleaned and primers seated firmly. I suppose I COULD have crushed a couple but I really wouldn't know how to tell. I too doubt that contaminated primers are the problem. Why? When I was visiting my sister and her husband they gave me a whole box of inherited reloading stuff to take back with me. I really didn't want to try and ship 400 or so old potentially crappy primers so I soaked them overnight in water with dish soap. The next mourning I took 3 out on the back porch and tapped them with a hammer. All three went off with the type of report one would expect.
The options of adding powder and/or dacron are intriguing. In the past I had considered souping up the load a little more with more powder but it just shot so damn well before, that I was just having too much fun shooting those tight little groups. Something I don't do very often.

I just went out to te truck and grabbed the cases. All primer strikes look good and there is a minimal amount of smoke stain around the neck of the cases but not dawn past the neck. Franly, this load has such low pressure (around 14,000 cup) taht I would kind of expect some blow by. It occured to me that others having no problems with this load may be related to my seating the bullets out to produce witness marks from the rifeling. Do you think I may just be adding too much case vaolume by seating the bullet out to far? The case mouth comes to the bottom of the top lube groove (not crimp groove) Thanks. KevD

Anything you do to up loading density and keep the powder against the primer will help. From your description that is your only problem.

I'm not a fan of fillers but they are used by a lot of people with perfect satisfaction. Seating the bullet deeper (there can't be that much difference between the crimp groove and the first lube band, is there?) might help.

Still, you elevated before every shot before with satisfaction and when you forget to you have problems. That says it all.

While sundog recommended switching powder lots, I just don't see that or primer lot as being the cause. The cause is low loading density causing improper ignition.

BruceB...now that you hae slugged that Ruger 7.62x39 bore have you had a chance to size your bullets accordingly and see how they shot? I know that I'm getting better accuracy then I expected with my CZ 30-06 with shooting an oversized bullet.

Joe

Here's my $2cents. Been using alot of loads that are less than 50% for years now. Also been using the Lee Ram-Prime tool. Am gonna try some filler one of these days but have steered clear of it up til now. I use magnum primers in all my plinker loads & just don't ever get misfires. Had a bunch on my Springfield one time but found it was a weak firing pin spring. A too-light touch on the primer seating is a sure way to get a misfire. I think a hangfire might be a contaminated primer or wet powder. Just some thoughts.